Hand-Rearing 2 fuzzies (feeding questions) (really long, so sorry!!)

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2pm
Sawyer is 21.79g and Greer is 24.58g. Sawyer had 1ml mixed with 1/8tsp baby cereal (finished that quick and still looked a bit squishy) so I mixed another 1ml with 1/8tsp and Sawyer finished almost all of that. Greer tried the baby cereal/formula mix and had about two finger tips of it but wasn't interested after. He had about 1ml of formula. When stimulated neither "went" however their cage bedding shows they're going more on their own in there.
 
AAT said:
Good idea. Let me know as soon as you get their syringe so I can help you get started with them. Try and get as much formula in them as you can without making their tummies firm. Since Sawyer likes the cereal, I would offer it to him whenever he is willing to take it, and see how he is with learning to take it from a dish. If, however, it starts to affect how much formula he takes during feedings, you will want to cut back a bit. How are their appetites, overall, and their stools? Are you still checking for dehydration?
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Appetites are good and still very present but they aren't as frantic about it but still very insistent on getting food and quick. They no longer dart every other direction for it. Their stools are solid (not constipated, not runny, not any odd colors). They may have gotten a tad firmer but overall it seems pretty consistent. Still nape checking, everything seems good there. I check before and after feedings as well as during their "snacks" between feedings and I've only had one time that I was iffy on how it snapped back (before feeding) and afterwards it was fine. That was roughly 12 hours ago and it's been quick to snap back ever since.

Awesome news, Sawyer almost never tries to power suck the cereal. (I say almost never because when I went to make the second little batch for him, he was trying to power suck a drop of formula on the lid; that was my fault). He licks it off fingers or off the lid. I'm thrilled with that!! I was shocked how much formula he ate with the cereal! And Greer's beginning to try the baby cereal more has me excited this could be small steps in a good direction for them :) not sure if that's the case but it feels like it!

Tummies are not firm, babies are fed, I'm happy to finally see a small gain for Sawyer and I'm hoping after snack and another feeding Greer might start gaining too.

I'm so happy to see that gain :001:
 
Simplicity said:
2pm
Sawyer is 21.79g and Greer is 24.58g. Sawyer had 1ml mixed with 1/8tsp baby cereal (finished that quick and still looked a bit squishy) so I mixed another 1ml with 1/8tsp and Sawyer finished almost all of that. Greer tried the baby cereal/formula mix and had about two finger tips of it but wasn't interested after. He had about 1ml of formula. When stimulated neither "went" however their cage bedding shows they're going more on their own in there.
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Thanks for this update. Good to hear Sawyer has taken to the mix, and that sounds like quite the meal he had! Nice to see a small weight increase, too. I'm curious if Greer might be more interested in eating this if you tweaked the temperature a little? Some babies (...actually, most babies) are like that. And yes, they should be eliminating almost completely on their own at three weeks. Continue to stimulate though, as this also helps them with digestion.
 
Simplicity said:
Appetites are good and still very present but they aren't as frantic about it but still very insistent on getting food and quick. They no longer dart every other direction for it. Their stools are solid (not constipated, not runny, not any odd colors). They may have gotten a tad firmer but overall it seems pretty consistent. Still nape checking, everything seems good there. I check before and after feedings as well as during their "snacks" between feedings and I've only had one time that I was iffy on how it snapped back (before feeding) and afterwards it was fine. That was roughly 12 hours ago and it's been quick to snap back ever since.

Awesome news, Sawyer almost never tries to power suck the cereal. (I say almost never because when I went to make the second little batch for him, he was trying to power suck a drop of formula on the lid; that was my fault). He licks it off fingers or off the lid. I'm thrilled with that!! I was shocked how much formula he ate with the cereal! And Greer's beginning to try the baby cereal more has me excited this could be small steps in a good direction for them :) not sure if that's the case but it feels like it!

Tummies are not firm, babies are fed, I'm happy to finally see a small gain for Sawyer and I'm hoping after snack and another feeding Greer might start gaining too.

I'm so happy to see that gain :001:
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That is great news. :) I am elated to see a small turnaround in Sawyer's weight, and would like to see the same for Greer, too. Temperature may be key with him (try some experimenting with this... it has solved issues I've had in the past).

Another thing you can try is touching/petting Greer during his feedings, or even having Sawyer with him. Infants have an instinct to eat more food when touched, which is the reason why separating littermates during feedings tends to reduce power-sucking.
 
4pm SNACK
Sawyer is 22.42g and Greer is 24.79g. Sawyer had 2ml mixed with 1/4tsp cereal and ate nearly all of it. Still pretty squishy feeling but I think I'd be pushing it if I offered more. No powersucking. Greer had 2ml mixed with 1/4 tsp cereal and ate about half of it. Both peed when stimulated. I think you were right, temperature was key. I didn't push Greer to eat more solely because belly was looking pretty full after just half the mix.
 
AAT said:
That is great news. :) I am elated to see a small turnaround in Sawyer's weight, and would like to see the same for Greer, too. Temperature may be key with him (try some experimenting with this... it has solved issues I've had in the past).

Another thing you can try is touching/petting Greer during his feedings, or even having Sawyer with him. Infants have an instinct to eat more food when touched, which is the reason why separating littermates during feedings tends to reduce power-sucking.
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You were totally spot on with the temperature factor for Greer! I tried having Sawyer out with Greer while eating (and although my boyfriend ended up finding a glop of formula/cereal mix on my shirt) I think it helped Greer :)
Nothing says romance like coming home to a disheveled girlfriend covered in formula glop. I'm just so excited for these gains now!!
Another quick question, how long do you keep your formula in the fridge before throwing it out? I usually make mine fresh just because I wasn't sure if it would keep in the fridge long enough for another feeding.
 
Simplicity said:
You were totally spot on with the temperature factor for Greer! I tried having Sawyer out with Greer while eating (and although my boyfriend ended up finding a glop of formula/cereal mix on my shirt) I think it helped Greer :)
Nothing says romance like coming home to a disheveled girlfriend covered in formula glop. I'm just so excited for these gains now!!
Another quick question, how long do you keep your formula in the fridge before throwing it out? I usually make mine fresh just because I wasn't sure if it would keep in the fridge long enough for another feeding.
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Fantastic! I suspected that might be the case with Greer. And what a thrill to see weight gains on both these guys. Continue to keep me posted on their feedings. :)

Regarding the formula, is it pre-mixed? The powder should keep for around three weeks in the fridge, but I usually discard of pre-mixed/liquid formula if it hasn't been finished within 24 hours.
 
AAT said:
Fantastic! I suspected that might be the case with Greer. And what a thrill to see weight gains on both these guys. Continue to keep me posted on their feedings. :)

Regarding the formula, is it pre-mixed? The powder should keep for around three weeks in the fridge, but I usually discard of pre-mixed/liquid formula if it hasn't been finished within 24 hours.
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It's powder formula, once it's mixed is it okay to us for up to 24 hours still or less?
 
Simplicity said:
It's powder formula, once it's mixed is it okay to us for up to 24 hours still or less?
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Yes, it is fine to use the mixed formula for up to 24 hours. I usually only make enough for each feeding (depending on what milk replacer I'm using) so that it is always fresh. But mixing enough for 24 hours is fine too as long as you discard of any leftovers afterwards.

How is Sawyer's clicking? Were you able to speak with your vet today?
 
6pm FEEDING
Sawyer is 22.37g and Greer is 25.48g. Wasn't much of a feeding for sawyer, I fed both babies together so Greer would be more inclined to eat more. Sawyer power sucked. Not a huge amount but he did. Ate about half of the cereal/formula mix (1ml) and Greer ate 2ml of the mix, maybe slightly more. Sawyer isn't firm or squishy, doesn't really feel full but wasn't real interested in anymore cereal mix and after powersucking, I just wanted to make sure we don't over do it. They get another snack in 2 hours so he'll be okay, better safe than sorry. They both previously eliminated and peed when stimulated.
 
AAT said:
Yes, it is fine to use the mixed formula for up to 24 hours. I usually only make enough for each feeding (depending on what milk replacer I'm using) so that it is always fresh. But mixing enough for 24 hours is fine too as long as you discard of any leftovers afterwards.

How is Sawyer's clicking? Were you able to speak with your vet today?
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Sawyer's clicking isn't really audible anymore, I don't hear it. I called my vet today and asked for an appointment as soon as possible, the receptionist set it for Friday evening. I talked to my vet directly to describe the noise I had heard (trying to get an earlier appointment if the vet thought it was more urgent). She told me what it "sounds" like I'm describing (haven't been in yet) is squeeking, not clicking. She basically said it's their way of telling me or the other baby to stop whatever it is we are doing to bug them, like when Greer tries grooming Sawyer to rough or when I'm stimulating them and they've had enough of it.

Regardless, I want her to check it. Just to be safe.
I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of annoyed over the appointment. I wish it was sooner and I wish she didn't just think I was mistaking a squeek for a click. Maybe I am though-I'm not sure. I trust this vet, she did great with my first two boys when they got their URIs and when previous pet mice had ended up with URIs (from pet store) and from what I can hear, it's no longer audible. I'm not sure if it cleared up or if the vet is right and I'm losing my mind.
The noise wasn't so much clicking as a sneeze noise. How can I confuse a squeek for a click or a sneeze?

Gah, I'll just wait and let the vet check it but if I hear it again, I'll be calling my friend's vet to check and see if I can walk in there. (The second vet does my friend's rat's neuters. It's another 60 miles past my vet which is already 56 miles away but if I hear that noise again, I've already got little bags packed).

I am curious though, with these snacks and feedings, I give them both the baby cereal/formula mix. Should I switch it to soft solids (like cooked carrots) for snacks and feedings of cereal/formula mix? Should I still be doing a snack in between feedings?
 
Simplicity said:
Sawyer's clicking isn't really audible anymore, I don't hear it. I called my vet today and asked for an appointment as soon as possible, the receptionist set it for Friday evening. I talked to my vet directly to describe the noise I had heard (trying to get an earlier appointment if the vet thought it was more urgent). She told me what it "sounds" like I'm describing (haven't been in yet) is squeeking, not clicking. She basically said it's their way of telling me or the other baby to stop whatever it is we are doing to bug them, like when Greer tries grooming Sawyer to rough or when I'm stimulating them and they've had enough of it.

Regardless, I want her to check it. Just to be safe.
I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of annoyed over the appointment. I wish it was sooner and I wish she didn't just think I was mistaking a squeek for a click. Maybe I am though-I'm not sure. I trust this vet, she did great with my first two boys when they got their URIs and when previous pet mice had ended up with URIs (from pet store) and from what I can hear, it's no longer audible. I'm not sure if it cleared up or if the vet is right and I'm losing my mind.
The noise wasn't so much clicking as a sneeze noise. How can I confuse a squeek for a click or a sneeze?

Gah, I'll just wait and let the vet check it but if I hear it again, I'll be calling my friend's vet to check and see if I can walk in there. (The second vet does my friend's rat's neuters. It's another 60 miles past my vet which is already 56 miles away but if I hear that noise again, I've already got little bags packed).

I am curious though, with these snacks and feedings, I give them both the baby cereal/formula mix. Should I switch it to soft solids (like cooked carrots) for snacks and feedings of cereal/formula mix? Should I still be doing a snack in between feedings?
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Continue the snacks until they have gained more weight and you are observing a steady daily weight gain, and offer them solids as much as you can in addition to the cereal. I would feed 90-100% formula for their feedings, and alternate between the cereal/formula mix and soft foods for snacks (maybe even try mixing the two?). They should be showing an interest in the rodent blocks now.

If the noise you were hearing was squeaking, it would not be a steady, consistent noise and there would likely be something which elicits it. It is possible that the clicking was due to some formula in the nostrils rather than down in the lungs (a few sneezes may have cleared it out), which would explain why you are no longer hearing the noise. Although I can only speculate, so it will be worthwhile to have him seen by a veterinarian.

Were you able to get your hands on a 1 ml syringe, by any chance?
 
Simplicity said:
10pm Snack
Sawyer is 22.7g and Greer is 25.56g. Both had a little bit of cereal mix but ended up feeding mostly formula. Both babies eliminated.
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Nothing wrong with feeding more formula here. Good to see them hanging on to their weights, even a slight increase. Do you have any rodent blocks for them to try? I would be tempted to leave these available to them for nibbling on whenever they choose.
 
AAT said:
Nothing wrong with feeding more formula here. Good to see them hanging on to their weights, even a slight increase. Do you have any rodent blocks for them to try? I would be tempted to leave these available to them for nibbling on whenever they choose.
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I have adult oxbow regal rat but I'll be picking up oxbow young rat/mouse tomorrow morning. Sawyer is looking much better, no bloat or puffed tummies. Greer seems to not have as much of an appetite when it comes to every 2 hours and I don't want to push because his tummy looks and feels pretty full still. Should I adjust his or continue how we are going? Sawyer is responding well, I had to triple check my scale that I wasn't just seeing things when it read 23.08g!!
 
Simplicity said:
I have adult oxbow regal rat but I'll be picking up oxbow young rat/mouse tomorrow morning. Sawyer is looking much better, no bloat or puffed tummies. Greer seems to not have as much of an appetite when it comes to every 2 hours and I don't want to push because his tummy looks and feels pretty full still. Should I adjust his or continue how we are going? Sawyer is responding well, I had to triple check my scale that I wasn't just seeing things when it read 23.08g!!
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I would still try tweaking the temperature with Greer if he gets fussy. It may not be the issue here, but you have nothing to lose by trying. Is his appetite the same during feedings and snacks, or do you notice a difference with one over the other?

Gosh... I would almost say tube-feeding would be the way to go with Greer due to his low appetite. We use this feeding method with neonate opossums. A small tube gets fed directly into the stomach and the formula runs through the tube. No air, and you can always feed the exact amount. It is VERY high-risk for the inexperienced (easy to accidentally feed the tube into their lungs versus their stomach) and it can really only be taught in person. So, the next best approach for getting him to eat more would be syringe-feeding. These two should be learning to eat from a dish now, though. Have you tried transitioning your babies to the dish?
 
How do I go about weaning them to a dish? They do pretty well with a dish if the formula is thickened. I've tried two or three times now with just formula and both have tried but end up wearing more of it than eating it.
I fed them at 7am and I feed them again at 9am in 25 minutes (it's been storming here so I had to feed in the car with a bottle warmer, didn't get weights).
 

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