Hematuria ...caused by enterococcus faecalis.
- Thread starter jorats
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twitch
Well-Known Member
i haven't seen anything bad on the memorial section, how's henry? better i hope?
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Henry is the same, bleeding but you wouldn't know it, he thinks he's just fine.
The vitamin K shots are done with. They are obviously not doing anything since he's still bleeding so it's definitely not a coagulation problem.
Guelph has asked us to clean our cages once a week with diluted bleach. (should be fun)
They are still scratching their heads on this one. Apparently, we have a lot of vets looking into it. They seem to think it's not viral either. It's very frustrating.
Keeping my fingers crossed and knocking on wood, but it's been over 2 weeks without a bleeder at my place. I'm feeling hopeful but cautious.
The vitamin K shots are done with. They are obviously not doing anything since he's still bleeding so it's definitely not a coagulation problem.
Guelph has asked us to clean our cages once a week with diluted bleach. (should be fun)
They are still scratching their heads on this one. Apparently, we have a lot of vets looking into it. They seem to think it's not viral either. It's very frustrating.
Keeping my fingers crossed and knocking on wood, but it's been over 2 weeks without a bleeder at my place. I'm feeling hopeful but cautious.
Dahlas
Well-Known Member
Jo when you use the dilute bleach let it sit for min 10 minutes.........that is what is needed to kill any germs....
We are all holding our breath that this is ver....but it would be wonderful to figure out what it was so it wouldn't/couldn't happen again........
We are all holding our breath that this is ver....but it would be wonderful to figure out what it was so it wouldn't/couldn't happen again........
I can't believe Radar and Treat are gone! How many babies have you lost thus far? I hope this situation ends soon.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Thanks Dahlas, I was going to ask for help here... anyone know what's a safe dilute ratio?
SoA, it's been a living nightmare. I've lost in total 5 rats to this illness, had one sick and recover. My mom has had 4 rats that had it and now another one Henry with it. She has not lost a rat to it though.
SoA, it's been a living nightmare. I've lost in total 5 rats to this illness, had one sick and recover. My mom has had 4 rats that had it and now another one Henry with it. She has not lost a rat to it though.
Fidget
Senior Member
What about putting in a request for helping hands?
and everybody get together saturday or sunday at the Rat Shack and haul the kid's cages and everything else that is theirs outside and really blast it with full-strength bleach and let it sit out a while you clean all the walls around their space and any place they walk. Then rinse everything off real good, you can use the hose outside...
Maybe people could bring spare cages ore even rough-tote bins to house the kids in the meantime... anything to try to find and kill this horrible thing if it's still lurking around somewhere....
... and you could wash all their fabric stuff with lots of bleach and then wash it again a couple times in clean water?
and everybody get together saturday or sunday at the Rat Shack and haul the kid's cages and everything else that is theirs outside and really blast it with full-strength bleach and let it sit out a while you clean all the walls around their space and any place they walk. Then rinse everything off real good, you can use the hose outside...
Maybe people could bring spare cages ore even rough-tote bins to house the kids in the meantime... anything to try to find and kill this horrible thing if it's still lurking around somewhere....
... and you could wash all their fabric stuff with lots of bleach and then wash it again a couple times in clean water?
Moon
Well-Known Member
As for dilution rate, Jo... I found this (it is actually from an article about cleaning litter boxes, LOL)
"Next, wash the box thoroughly with detergent and hot water. Rinse thoroughly, then spray inside and out with a mild bleach solution, about 1:32 (1 cup bleach to 1 gallon water). If it's sunny, let the box dry outside for an hour. Rinse again thoroughly, then dry with paper towels."
"Next, wash the box thoroughly with detergent and hot water. Rinse thoroughly, then spray inside and out with a mild bleach solution, about 1:32 (1 cup bleach to 1 gallon water). If it's sunny, let the box dry outside for an hour. Rinse again thoroughly, then dry with paper towels."
Godmother
Well-Known Member
Re dilution ratio: I just saw a post on NatureNB, a forum for bird enthusiasts, by a vet who works for a provincial govt lab. He was advising people who find sick or dead finches to soak their bird feeders in a bleach solution:
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Thanks guys!!
Fidget, it's a lovely thought but we are pretty far up north, it would take a few days to get all the work done, besides our vet advises that no other rat people or rats come into our home until we can get to the bottom of this.
Fidget, it's a lovely thought but we are pretty far up north, it would take a few days to get all the work done, besides our vet advises that no other rat people or rats come into our home until we can get to the bottom of this.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
mamarat came up with something which could explain how the "illness" is going around... or not, could just be a long shot, grasping at straws, hoping for answers... and other clichés.
mamarat adopted April, Daizy with their filthy cage, and Dane, Charlie and their filthy cage. The cages were cleaned but not à la bleach. Power washed outside using Sunlight detergent and vinegar.
One cage is brought back in because Dane and Charlie had no were to go. mamarat's April bleeds, then Oscar, and Louie. Meanwhile, mamarat changes cages for Dane and Charlie and brings it up to my place. I use it for my oldies. My Cande bleeds but recovers then Mielle, Boo, Radar, Treat, Sophie bleed and pass away. I no longer need the cage so it's brought back to mamarat... and lo and behold, her Henry starts to bleed. That cage is now outside and won't be coming back in. Could that be it? Or just a coincidence? So far, I have not had any bleeders, it's been 2.5 weeks. I'm so praying that it's done with.
mamarat adopted April, Daizy with their filthy cage, and Dane, Charlie and their filthy cage. The cages were cleaned but not à la bleach. Power washed outside using Sunlight detergent and vinegar.
One cage is brought back in because Dane and Charlie had no were to go. mamarat's April bleeds, then Oscar, and Louie. Meanwhile, mamarat changes cages for Dane and Charlie and brings it up to my place. I use it for my oldies. My Cande bleeds but recovers then Mielle, Boo, Radar, Treat, Sophie bleed and pass away. I no longer need the cage so it's brought back to mamarat... and lo and behold, her Henry starts to bleed. That cage is now outside and won't be coming back in. Could that be it? Or just a coincidence? So far, I have not had any bleeders, it's been 2.5 weeks. I'm so praying that it's done with.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Looks like the missing link! What is that cage made of??
Can you take a pic Jo and we'll see if its a recognizable brand name? Could you get scrapings off the cage to see what they may have been exposed to?
Can you take a pic Jo and we'll see if its a recognizable brand name? Could you get scrapings off the cage to see what they may have been exposed to?
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
It's a popular cage, many use it. It's the Prevue Small Animal Homes with Stand.
LA
Well-Known Member
It's an idea. I hope that's what it is.
Bleach is very strong and you can put it with water and still have a good enough sanitization. With vinegar you can't dilute it to get the stong sanitization you need to kill. I would think in an everyday use vinegar would be ok, but this brings something up. When someone brings in a new rat that the cage they are in should be cleaned with bleach. Yes bleach is more harmful but when it's rinsed well afterwards it's not bad.
My suggestion would be to use a kiddie pool and put a lot of bleach in it and put the cage in it.
Bleach is very strong and you can put it with water and still have a good enough sanitization. With vinegar you can't dilute it to get the stong sanitization you need to kill. I would think in an everyday use vinegar would be ok, but this brings something up. When someone brings in a new rat that the cage they are in should be cleaned with bleach. Yes bleach is more harmful but when it's rinsed well afterwards it's not bad.
My suggestion would be to use a kiddie pool and put a lot of bleach in it and put the cage in it.
I sure hope so. Maybe your vets could swab it and see what grows. Or better still, it would make more sense dismantling the cage and tossing it out.
BTW, 70% isopropanol, which you can get at supermarkets, is good for sterilising surfaces. Just wipe over surfaces and let it air dry. Sometimes I sterilise things (like bowls) by boiling them for 15 minutes, that'll kill most bacterial spores too. So does your vet think this is due to bacteria?
BTW, 70% isopropanol, which you can get at supermarkets, is good for sterilising surfaces. Just wipe over surfaces and let it air dry. Sometimes I sterilise things (like bowls) by boiling them for 15 minutes, that'll kill most bacterial spores too. So does your vet think this is due to bacteria?
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Is it an older cage that someone may have painted themselves?
If the finish had chipped, just about anything could be growing under the intact paint without you ever knowing it. The paint itself, when breaking down, could be toxic. Something could have coated the metal underneath, or even had a reaction to the metal, which then caused something toxic.. This would be a really big step in that direction if most of the rats who showed symptoms were bar chewers...
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
It's the original paint and the cage is in good shape, I'm sure it's not old. Here's the catch about that cage, Dane and Charlie lived in it with no problems, Tiki and Pepper lived in it with no illness either, only Mielle lived in it and passed away. All mine that died never had access to the actual cage but did go near the stand/legs.
Godmother
Well-Known Member
Good detective work, mamarat! You seem to have found something that really fits. The Guelph vets or your vet may have ideas about what they'd like to examine on that cage.
Dahlas
Well-Known Member
It could still be the cage Jo....Using cats as an example....not all exposed to something become sick with it...it depends on age, stress, immunity, other underlying conditions.......
Dane and Charlie lived in it and weren't sick maybe because they had been exposed to it and built up some form of immunity....Tiki and Pepper....might have been able to fight it off...but
Mielle could not fight it due to age or other factors....once it became infected in someone it then could be transmitted to others.......
Just a thought but it is possible. We had a bank of cages at the shelter that was like that ...we had to javex them and let them sit outdoors in the sun for a month.....to kill all germs........
Dane and Charlie lived in it and weren't sick maybe because they had been exposed to it and built up some form of immunity....Tiki and Pepper....might have been able to fight it off...but
Mielle could not fight it due to age or other factors....once it became infected in someone it then could be transmitted to others.......
Just a thought but it is possible. We had a bank of cages at the shelter that was like that ...we had to javex them and let them sit outdoors in the sun for a month.....to kill all germs........
