Hematuria ...caused by enterococcus faecalis.

The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Jo,

I'm at work right now. But I am going to print the report you posted off and ask some of the vets in mine/my husbands' area. Might shed a different viewpoint. Will post when I get home tonight.

Jen
 
Thanks Jen, any other thoughts from anyone is surely welcome!!

As an aside, when my vet posted on her exotic forum, not one had a clue. :(
 
I ran the report down to one of our vets. At the moment she is still working on work stuff but said the case sounds very interesting from the report I gave her and she is definitely going to look into it. She said it sounds like something she has heard before, in guinea pigs but she can't put her finger on it. I will touch base with her tomorrow to see if she can offer any more info. Thats the best I can do for now, sorry Joanne.

In the meantime, all of your herd is in our thoughts and prayers.

Jen
 
You and treat are in my thoughts, big time.

This thread makes me more and more ill every time I read it.
 
hante virus does not cause hematuria or thinning blood or even bleeding out

LA said:
Oh Jo, this is the first time I have sat down and read this thread. I'm so sorry.
The only thing I can tell you is at a local historic place here in town. You should know it - Sainte Marie Among the Hurons across from the Shrine. I worked there in the maintenance department one summer. All the time in the native church we would have to go in and clean the mouse poo off the alter. Each time we would get dressed up in the white suits, mask, gloves etc because of the threat of hanta virus. So it is out there. I did some searching on it.

Hantavirus has an incubation time of 2-4 weeks in humans, before symptoms of infection occur. These symptoms can be split into five phases:

Febrile phase: Symptoms include fever, chills, malaise, headaches, nausea, abdominal and back pain, respiratory problems such as the ones common in the influenza virus, as well as gastro-intestinal problems. These symptoms normally occur for 3-7 days.
Hypotensive phase: This occurs when the blood platelet levels drop and symptoms can lead to tachycardia and hypoxemia. This phase can last for 2 days.
Oliguric phase: This phase lasts for 3-7 days and is characterised by the onset of renal failure and proteinuria occurs.
Diuretic phase: This is characterized by diuresis of 3-6L per day, which can last for a couple of days up to weeks.
Convalescent phase: This is normally when recovery occurs and symptoms begin to improve.


Also something else from a CBC report from 2006
Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome is not a common illness. There were no cases at all in Canada in all of 2004; the country typically reports just three cases a year. Furthermore, most people who are exposed to the virus do not fall ill. But if HPS is contracted, it can be a killer. Mortality estimates in Canada and United States range from 33 per cent to 50 per cent.

"It's not always fatal," said Dr. Robin Lindsay, with the national microbiology lab in Winnipeg. "Of the 61 human cases we've had so far, we're looking at a 36 per cent mortality rate. Unfortunately, it can have a high mortality rate, but people do survive exposure."

The first symptoms typically occur one to three weeks after exposure to infected mice and their droppings. It begins as a flu-like illness. Fever, muscle pains and fatigue progress within a few days to coughing and shortness of breath. Lungs fill with fluid and a respirator is often needed. For those who survive, recovery can take weeks or months. There is no vaccine.

That last part could explain why some are getting it and not others.

:hugs:
 
My guys don't get raisins or grapes. I read into blood thinners already, I'm so at a loss, even read about coumarin in some veggies like carrots, celery, parsley... I know those are long shots but I'm desperate.
 
OMG Jo, Treat :sad3: I'm so sorry.

Jo I know you wash your veggies very well before giving them to the crew, is it possible there was something on that that may have been missed? I'm going back to the poisoning that your vet talked about.

Edit again: also I know there have been problems with veggies this year tomatoes etc. I know it's a stretch and they probably can't be tested anymore but I wonder.
 
but nobody new they were toxic to dogs either until recently. ive always fed my dogs grapes and never had an issue it took a dog eating a larger quantity to find out. its just that they are nephro-toxic(kidney) that made me think of it.
the fact that the spleen had large quantities of hematopoetin says their bodies were responding to this threat and were trying to make new red blood cells.

javakittie said:
Raisins and grapes aren't dangerous to rats like they are to some other pets.
 
LA, I guess it's a possibility... I buy those veggies in a bag, spring mix in a container, fresh broccoli/fresh kale and frozen peas.
The peas is once a week, broccoli/kale twice a week and the veggies in a bag/spring mix container 4 times. But the other rats get it too and there's not been a problem in them. ...yet.
 
theratlady said:
but nobody new they were toxic to dogs either until recently. ive always fed my dogs grapes and never had an issue it took a dog eating a larger quantity to find out. its just that they are nephro-toxic(kidney) that made me think of it.
the fact that the spleen had large quantities of hematopoetin says their bodies were responding to this threat and were trying to make new red blood cells.

javakittie said:
Raisins and grapes aren't dangerous to rats like they are to some other pets.

Dogs and cats also aren't omnivores like rats are, and the quantity they [rats] would need to eat in order to have a 'normal' reaction to the grapes would be a whole lot more than Jo would ever give to her cages at one time. Even if they all had some strange predisposition to something like this going wrong, Jo's had them all in her care for long enough that there would have been some sort of clinical symptom prior to the outbreak. Jo's said she hasn't changed anything, nothing new in atleast a good amount of time, and I know her diet habits/regime have been in effect for quite some time, too.

Somewhere, something was introduced. It's going down the list and trying to find out what about *that* cage has been different from all of the others. Just about everything is shared between cages, and each cage has the same cleaning procedures and products used on it. The fact that no other cages are showing any symptoms is what's really confusing. Because if it was something toxic in a food, cleaning agent, something, then the others should be showing a problem, too. The idea that a single group of unrelated rats all suddenly came down with something or started showing symptoms of something at the exact same time is sort of far fetched. Even if was some sort of bacteria or virus, all of the rats share the same room, play areas, and everything. Why isn't anyone else showing symptoms?

:hugs: I'm so sorry you're having to go through all of this, Jo! I really do hope your vet and the labs are able to find out what's going on, and soon. Are they going to test the HT and Oxbow, etc..?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top