Hematuria ...caused by enterococcus faecalis.

[user 78]

I'm so very sorry, Jo! I hope you're able to find out what happened.

Wasn't Boo related to Sheep, the little one who failed to clot? I would really think it was something genetic from that alone. I wonder if there's a test your vet can do to find that out..?

 

[jorats]

Thanks everyone...
Kat, my vet is aware of sheep and will look into that as well.
My vet is almost certain that it's not Revolution. She said if she didn't know us, she would have thought rat poison.
But because of that, she says it must be viral, a contagion because it's going between two households.
She's doing postmortem this evening and will be sending the tissues to Guelph.
I hope it stops with Boo...

 

[Moon]

Ahh crap Jo, I'm so sorry... so scary.. and Boo, he was the boy I just wanted to eat up...

 

[Dahlas]

What a nightmare...my heart goes out to you all. You must be so scared. I hope everything gets straightened out soon

 

[Godmother]

Such a terrible thing. I am so glad that your vet is willing and able to help you figure out the mystery.

 

[lj]

Oh, sorry to hear all this Jo. Keep us posted.

Miss you Boo.

 

[jorats]

I spoke to my vet. The postmortem didn't reveal anything that would show cause of death. In fact, she said he looked like a healthy male. The atrium was a bit enlarged but not enough to indicate cardiac arrest. There were no crystals and no sign of parasites unless they are too small for her to see. We are getting a pathohistology done. Depending on those results, we will do a virology and toxicology test. She thinks it's viral, the hematuria being a symptom of the virus.

On a side note, he already had very small pulmonary abscesses growing, which could indicate that later in life he would be fighting myco, depending on how fast the abscesses would grow. It just goes to show you that respiratory disease starts early, way before there is any sign of there being a problem. :sad3:

 

[Dewi]

I only just read this. I'm so very sorry for what is going on with the Ratshack rats and for the rats that have passes away. I hope you get some answers soon, it would be very worrying not know exactly what is going on. :cry:

 

[jorats]

The pathohistology is in.... essentially, there's still no answer. All the organs show a bleeding out. There is no inflammation which would indicate a virus, an attack on the system. No worms, no crystals... nothing, except he bled out.
So, we are sending away more tissues, this time looking for toxicity, specifically rat poison. It if does come back as such, we'll have to get the Harlan and the Oxbow tested.

 

[lilspaz68]

Glad to hear its not viral, hoping its not a poison though.

 

[theratlady]

really sorry joanne :heart: but something came to mind when i read about the "bleed out"
dogs and sometimes cats get autoimmune hemolytic anemia and dont see why rats coudnt get it as well. there is no known cause really a lot of the time. but essentially the body just all of a sudden attacks its own red blood cells. sometimes steroids helps.

 

[Dewi]

Hmmm... this is very frustrating.

 

[jorats]

theratlady, you're not talking like hemophelia right? I checked online and the symptoms seems pretty dead on, especially Boo's case: signs of anemia and later heart failure. His atrium was enlarged. I'll mention it to my vet next time we talk. Thanks!

 

[theratlady]

no its not hemophelia as thats the inability to clot after damage is done.
hemolytic anemia is the body attacking itself. kinda like an allergy i guess to simplify how it works.

 

[jorats]

In humans, it looks like it can be either hereditary or acquired... Could that be contagious?
One thing my vet said, there was no sepsis.

 

[Godmother]

What a puzzle. And I can't see how it could be poisoning, because all your rats get the same food.

If humans can get autoimmune hemolytic anemias, rats probably can. I know of a person whose brother developed a strange bleeding problem when he was about four. They never found out what caused it. His platelet count got low, and he had bruises all over his body. He made an apparent full recovery, but I think it affected his brain. He got into criminal activity from a young age and lived a very unproductive life.

Humans are subject to many auto-immune diseases. I sure hope that the further tests give some clues.

 

[Dewi]

Haemolytic anaemia occurs when a high number of red blood cells rupture (ie. they haemolyse) which results in anaemia. So in most cases you don't see bleeding externally, but urine tends to get dark and the faeces pale, amongst other symptoms. Lots of things can cause it from viruses, auto-immune disorders, ingestion of certain oxidising agents (some of which can occur naturally in food and cause haemolytic anaemia in susceptible animals/people e.g. onions and cats; fava beans and some people).

I'd be curious if it's a form of haemophilia that has been triggered by a virus or a toxin. Or alternatively, perhaps haemolytic anaemia can cause external bleeding and maybe this was triggered by a stressor like an oxidising agent or toxin in the food or even the revolution? At this stage I'm still inclined to think it was a virus (viruses don't always cause sepsis and they can be difficult to identify as well), just because of it's sudden onset and only some were affected.

Are the other ratties okay now? I hope you, mamarat & morats are okay too.

 

[jorats]

Great info Dewi, thanks!
No other cases, nothing, all other rats are healthy so far. :thumbup:

 

[jorats]

I picked up my report today.
theratlady, is this what you were talking about?

this was part of the report...
I do not know enough about the spleen in rats to know how to interpret the extramedullary hemastopoiesis and the iron. In other species, that would be taken as evidence of ongoing or episodic hemolytic disease or internal blood loss.

 

[Godmother]

Sounds like that report will need some interpreting from your vet.

If there was internal blood loss or hemolysis, I wonder what the possible causes could be.