Hematuria ...caused by enterococcus faecalis.

The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Oh Jo, this is the first time I have sat down and read this thread. I'm so sorry.
The only thing I can tell you is at a local historic place here in town. You should know it - Sainte Marie Among the Hurons across from the Shrine. I worked there in the maintenance department one summer. All the time in the native church we would have to go in and clean the mouse poo off the alter. Each time we would get dressed up in the white suits, mask, gloves etc because of the threat of hanta virus. So it is out there. I did some searching on it.

Hantavirus has an incubation time of 2-4 weeks in humans, before symptoms of infection occur. These symptoms can be split into five phases:

Febrile phase: Symptoms include fever, chills, malaise, headaches, nausea, abdominal and back pain, respiratory problems such as the ones common in the influenza virus, as well as gastro-intestinal problems. These symptoms normally occur for 3-7 days.
Hypotensive phase: This occurs when the blood platelet levels drop and symptoms can lead to tachycardia and hypoxemia. This phase can last for 2 days.
Oliguric phase: This phase lasts for 3-7 days and is characterised by the onset of renal failure and proteinuria occurs.
Diuretic phase: This is characterized by diuresis of 3-6L per day, which can last for a couple of days up to weeks.
Convalescent phase: This is normally when recovery occurs and symptoms begin to improve.


Also something else from a CBC report from 2006
Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome is not a common illness. There were no cases at all in Canada in all of 2004; the country typically reports just three cases a year. Furthermore, most people who are exposed to the virus do not fall ill. But if HPS is contracted, it can be a killer. Mortality estimates in Canada and United States range from 33 per cent to 50 per cent.

"It's not always fatal," said Dr. Robin Lindsay, with the national microbiology lab in Winnipeg. "Of the 61 human cases we've had so far, we're looking at a 36 per cent mortality rate. Unfortunately, it can have a high mortality rate, but people do survive exposure."

The first symptoms typically occur one to three weeks after exposure to infected mice and their droppings. It begins as a flu-like illness. Fever, muscle pains and fatigue progress within a few days to coughing and shortness of breath. Lungs fill with fluid and a respirator is often needed. For those who survive, recovery can take weeks or months. There is no vaccine.

That last part could explain why some are getting it and not others.

:hugs:
 
But the thing that nags me about the hantavirus is that its in the environment, it shouldn't just be one cage. Yes it says that not all will show sickness but you would think one or two from the other cage would show something.

Also if it is hantavirus, Joanne, have you or your family had any strange symtpoms? I would think it would have some affect on the humans in the house.

Any chance you have another cage you can set up to move the affected colony into while you tear the other cage down?
 
Thanks LA... I'm going to mention that to my vet as well.
Jen, no, I don't have another cage, I can only clean this one thoroughly and put rats back... and hope it helps.

Shelagh, I don't think she'll do bloodwork, it might be a dangerous thing especially if he's not coagulating. I'm calling my vet tomorrow.

...Treat is not looking too good right now, he's becoming lethargic and his breathing is bad. :sad3:
 
This is the time that I wish we could do transfusions on rats. Some platelets or red cells would do him the world of good right now. An oxygen tank would help, too. It is hard to cope with ERs on the weekend, but there seems so little that can be done for this kind of situation.

Healing vibes, kisses, and prayers to Treat.
 
Godmother said:
Yes, it would be interesting to see the whole thing.
Oops, just saw this...

Here it is:

The history of hemorrhage from vulva or urethra in both male and female rats suggests that this is a problem either with urinary bladder or with kidneys rather than reproductive tract. This collection of postmortem tissues begins with liver where, to my surprise, there is acute synchronous periacinar coagulation necrosis compatible with profound hypoxia or anemia of perhaps 12-24 hours duration. I see no evidence for preexistent liver disease, and the necrosis occurs without inflammation. I do not see any viral inclusions.
Spleen has a great deal of hematopoiesis throughout, along with s substantial amount of hemosiderin. There is no evidence of neoplasia or active inflammatory disease. Multiple sections of lung very from normal to lungs with patchy bronchiolar necrosis, accumulations of lipid or mucus-laden macrophages within and surrounding those airways, and large plugs of intermittent macrophages, neutrophils, and mucus filling some of those distended airways. I stress that the lesion is present only in patches, but within those patches it is substantial and probably significant.
Kidney has a great deal of acute synchronous tubular necrosis, perhaps responding to the same systemic injury as the liver. The glomeruli look normal, and there is no inflammation. In myocardium there is very acute necrosis in a patchy fashion suggesting very recent myocardial ischemic injury. The evidence is therefore mounting that, whatever is killing these rats, it is somehow related to profound terminal hypoxia as might occur with some kind of bizarre bleeding syndrome. I nave not found any evidence of infectious disease, and I have not been able to identify any particular source of blood loss. The latter, of course, is hardly surprising when using histopathology. Finding a source of blood loss is better done with macroscopic observation. Hemotology might also be very useful. I do not know enough about the spleen in rats to know how to interpret the extramedullary hemastopoiesis and the iron. In other species, that would be taken as evidence of ongoing or episodic hemolytic disease or internal blood loss.
DIAGNOSIS:
Acute coagulation necrosis, probably ischemic necrosis, affecting liver, kidney, and heart... supporting (but not proving) the notion that blood loss was the cause of death... even though I have not identified a source for that bleeding.
 
:hugs: :hugs: from me.........I feel terrible for you and your darlings. Whatever this is I pray it is over soon and that Treat gets better.......OMG it is unbelievable.
 
It is so terrifying because the report makes it sound unlikely to be a virus (no inflammatory process). A total mystery. And it could happen to any of us because our rats come from similar gene pools, we feed them the same food, use the same bedding and cages and toys & meds.

I feel terrible for you. Those poor sweet ratties, dying without anyone being able to help. The only silver lining in the cloud is your vet's ability to keep investigating until she finds out what is causing this.
 
Oh Joanne, I'm so sorry. I'm crying here for you. Our thoughts are with all of you at the Rat Shack.
 
I would remove the toys, but don't throw them away. If something comes up on the toxicology you'll want to test everything they've come in contact with.

Good luck with Treat at the vet. Ask her if she can take blood from Radar and if she can collect the blood that is passing from Treat and possibly use that to test with. It's a long shot, but worth asking.
 
Thanks guys... we are back from the vet. Treat was given fluids and dex. But it's not looking good. Can't send blood work from a dead animal. If she were to take Treat's blood, it would surely have killed him and probably wouldn't have come up with much, his blood is so thin right now, like water. We talked about taking blood from a cage mate but she said it's very risky and she's not comfortable with that. The test she had in mind would require 2.7ccs which is about 10% of the rat's blood and that's too dangerous.
They have talked with the labs about the new cases and they want our Harlan and Oxbow samples.
I haven't thrown away the toys, I've sealed them up and put them away, in case it does need to be tested.

And, we keep praying...
 
I am so very sorry :sad3:
I haven't been following this thread for awhile.
I hope that your vet soon finds out what is happening so something can be done.
Very, very sorry Treat :heart: is so ill.

:hugs:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top