Hand raising rejected babies

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I think putting them in with Grandma would be a good option. You can remove the older babies every so often to let the little ones eat. Make sure, before you put them in though, that you rub them with mom's old, dirty bedding and mix them in with her babies so that she won't reject them. And watch carefully to make sure she won't harm them. Normally, she'll adopt them without issue though. Just see how things go. You should still give them hand feedings sometimes, if they don't seem to be eating, but I doubt they're in any real harm.

Sometimes rats know things we don't, and these babies may be sick, and that's why they're being rejected. Or maybe they're just runts, and are smaller, and they'll grow up fine as long as they get the nutrition they need.
 
RockyGurly said:
hopefloats said:
they should make it with momma if they are failing to thrive from megacolon there is nothing you can do to stop it. formula can trigger it to progress if that is what will happen
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That's what gave me the impression formula isn't good for high risk babies? Unless I read it wrong?
I got some more formula into the two, I'm not as worried for the bigger babies as they're rapidly gaining weight but I did give them more belly rubs. I gave the small babies warm water off the paintbrush before the diluted formula in case they were dehydrated so that seems to help. I think they're doing ok with it, I'm not seeing any diarhea and they're doing what I'm assuming is nursing things, moving their mouths and tongues and swallowing the formula. I wrap them in a little cloth to hold them upright when I feed them so I hope that helps
I think it's getting worse though, I found the two small babies in the opposite corner of the nest without any bedding today, I think Mae is rejecting them. Should I move them to the heated nursery tank if she keeps doing it? They're 10 grams today, but they have milk bands after Mattiee feeds them or I feed them, and their bellies aren't black anymore. One of them tried to nurse on my hand


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Formula is made for babies. The digestive system of a baby and a rat are different just like their diets are. There isnt a rat formula so that is what people use. Mommas milk is safest for babies there is no replacement for them other than human or kitten replacements. They need certain diets which cannot be replicated by a can of formula. That is what momma has no one else. Formula is different from rats milk so it can very well trigger bloating. I seen one sickly baby go from fine to bloating with formula. if a baby has problem, which you cannot prevent or stop, a different diet can trigger it to kick in.

If momma is rejecting them there is something wrong with the babies and chances are they wont make it. We had one baby make it about a week and one die at 3 weeks.

Grandma is not a good idea because those babies are double the size of these ones and they wont be able to compete on what 12 nipples that rats have with babies twice their size. Leaving them alone isn't right either. It can be hard to stimulate a baby to pee/poop and if doesnt get removed it goes toxic in their systems.

I wouldn't move them out of the tank from the original mom, they have milk bands right? If so there is no reason to pull them. if momma is not paying full attention to them then put them back with her but chances are momma knows there is something wrong and she may be trying to let nature take its course.

The new momma may take them right in but you run the risk of her seeing it as an intruder as well. which wouldn't be good. The ones our rat rejected we kept putting them back in with momma. Some made it but 2 died. I would take the other babies out and lock momma in with the littles over anything. Keep tucking them back in with momma. There may be a point nature will have to take over they know when something is really wrong with them. It has to be deadly wrong not just minor because we had handicap rats and momma never rejected them, only the ones who ended up dying.
 
It is hard to know what to do ...
Their mama may be rejecting them for several reasons ... they may be ill or they may be fine.
At this point there is no way to tell whether or not they have megacolon or if they are fine
If the more experienced grandma is feeding them, she must think they are ok.

Personally, I would keep getting grandma to nurse them and I would continue to hand feed and stimulate them to eliminate.
Good that you are making sure they smell like Mattiee's babies so she doesn't reject them or harm them.
Did you make sure they smell like their siblings when you give them back to their mom?
They will not be able to compete with the older babies and might be injured if in with them because they are so much older.
I would put them with grandma (Mattiee) as much as possible.
 
I think I've gotten into the swing of things now. I've totally pulled them from Mae, she's made it very clear she doesn't want anything to do with either of them, even though they were rubbed up in her bedding before I gave them back to her. I put them in with the other babies and she singled them out and carried them away. So they're living in their heated nursery tank with their fleece blanket and stuffed rat for company. Every other feeding I put a couple of Mattiees babies in their tank (I have two that are very sweet and gentle, I'm keeping both of those boys, they cuddle the babies and lick them all over) then I put Mattiee in with them and she just nudges them around and feeds them and then she wants out, every other feeding after that I wrap them up in a piece of fleece to hold them upright and give them their formula and water from a paintbrush. I'm trying to feed them every 1 1/2 to 2 hours right now, it's going to he a long few nights. But they're improving, they look like soft babies whereas this morning they looked like old wrinkly fruit. Plus they're lifting their heads and wiggling their tails, so I think it's working
Mae is still taking care of her other babies. And I got to talk to the local pet store I shop at and the girl running the place said shed be happy to let me put the babies on display there (they'd have a big enclosure to live in, food and attention) while I'm trying to find homes for them if I'm not able to get my critter nation soon. I found one on sale and I'm Ordering it this weekend but who knows when it'll get here. It's not the best way to do it, but at least they'll have somewhere to stay, and they'll be in a place where people will be looking for pets, so my info will be tere with them and we can sort out the adoption business


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Glad to hear that the babies are doing better.

RockyGurly said:
And I got to talk to the local pet store I shop at and the girl running the place said shed be happy to let me put the babies on display there (they'd have a big enclosure to live in, food and attention) while I'm trying to find homes for them if I'm not able to get my critter nation soon. I found one on sale and I'm Ordering it this weekend but who knows when it'll get here. It's not the best way to do it, but at least they'll have somewhere to stay, and they'll be in a place where people will be looking for pets, so my info will be tere with them and we can sort out the adoption business


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Just a warning .... I know of someone who did something similar ... and the store employees sold the babies as snake food.
Personally I would not put any rats in a pet store.
Not only might something happen to them but they will be exposed to diseases.
There are airborn rat diseases that have a very high death rate and are epidemic - that is why people are encouraged to quarantine new rats in a separate airspace and follow quarantine procedures. It is also one reason why rat owners are encouraged not to visit pet stores.
 
It's not ideal, but I do trust Lisa. She often takes in animals in these kind of situations and sells them as pets.
But unfortunately the alternative is keeping 13 rats in a 30 gallon tank :/ I signed up for 4 rats and I ended up with 25, I'm trying really hard to keep them well but I'm struggling to keep up. Unless a few hundred dollars fall into my lap in the next couple of days I'm going to need her help.
It's weak, I know, but if I was an adult with a job or my own house it'd be different. I've contacted three rescues and two haven't responded in weeks, one told me to scram. So unless putting them in a pillow case and thwacking them against the wall is a better alternative..



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I'm going to sound like a murderous monster to all the rat lovers or vegans out there (like me) and a perfectly reasonable person to all the people who have pets who need meat (like me) I'm just trying to figure out what would be best for them, and it might end up being euthanizing them humanely and offering them as food. But I'll try some other things first
Anyways, both of the small babies are 12 grams now. Mae seems a bit calmer now that she only has 7 babies to look after, and they're all super chubby right now. Instead of milk bands they have milk balls, it's nuts. I got them all to poop a bit but I found her licking them so hopefully she's getting the hang of it. I'm setting up a container so I can have the babies right next to my bed so I can sleep between feedings, it's been a long day. But I got more formula for them and more adult food (oxbow) while I was in town so everyone should be set for a little while.



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Maybe some members in BC might be able to help.
If you put them to sleep, you will need to find a rat vet that knows how to do it correctly (ie humanely) as that is the only way to do it humanely. Most vets do not know how to humanely put small rodents to sleep.

putting them in a pillow case and thwacking them against the wall
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is not humane. Neither are any of the methods used by snake owners/breeders.

I just emailed someone in BC to see if they can help or if they know someone who can.
You might want to start a new thread asking if people in BC can help or know of anyone who can, know of good people who might want to adopt, etc
You may also want to post on goosemoose.com (ratsrule) and contact rescues just over the border in the USA.
In the past rescue rats have been transported between BC and the states.

Link on rehoming rats viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29519

Links on euthanasia:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9582
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18828
 
Trying to rehome them would be ideal. Trying home euthanasia is totally unacceptable. I'd bring them to a pet store before that.
What about contacting an SPCA or humane society.
 
The pillow case thing was just sarcasm, even if it came down to that its not something I could do :/ (no sleep=grumpy rocky)
Right now I'm putting up flyers in pet stores and vet clinics, when I get my computer back I'm going to be putting up tons of ads online (kijiji, Facebook, Craigslist, etc) but if I can't get some homes lined up sooner than later ill have to ask Lisa for help. I talked to her about it and she said shed be fine with running the potential buyers/adopters (there will be money involved for her to help out) through me before giving them the ok, so it's not like I don't know where they're going (no more than adopting out myself)
What I'm hoping for now is that my critter nation will get here quickly. If I can get it before or shortly after the 5 week mark I can keep everyone or mostly everyone semi-comfortable until they find homes.
I have contacted the local SPCA via email, and they just gave me a lecture on breeding :/ (but when I asked them about fostering reptile months ago they gave me a lecture on keeping exotic pets so email probably isn't the best way to get your point across) so I'm trying to get in there next week, they're only open a couple days a week.
There's another local rat rescue I contacted but they just told me to buzz off, there are a couple not so local rescues I contacted and I haven't heard from them yet. One I really hope I hear from, they're the ones my vet recommended on the phone


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Oh, and its working! :) after me and Mattiee feeding them all night they have big milk bellies. They really like to nuzzle into their fleecy blanket and they're starting to flail and thrash when I hold them (I usually wrap them up in a small piece of fleece when I feed them) they're also starting to try to crawl onto my fingers when I'm doing things nearby.
Mae's babies are covered in fine white hair, they look more or less exactly like Mattiees babies and all the adults (telling everyone apart sucks) and the two small babies are covered in white peach fuzz, so they're not so far behind now. They are getting really fiesty


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Both of the little ones are 13 grams now, Mae's other babies are 17 and 18 grams
Also here's ratski, who keeps the babies warm while I'm weighing them lol
me7ezare.jpg


(She's a stuffie I got YEARS ago, but I brought her out to be a cuddle toy for the babies.

Mattiees babies are learning to use their mini wheel tonight, some of them get the idea but most of them just hang on and spin while the others run on it


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it sounds like you're doing everything you possibly can to try and rehome your babies. I wish you the best of luck and look forward to hearing how things progress. you might want to tell the idiots at the SPCA but you're not breeding your rats, they just came to you that way. some people!

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I'm amazed at what you've been able to accomplish for each & every little soul whose life was in your hands, and some so fragile...
You surely can't consider the food thing. Have you tried your SPCA? and your local Craigslist or better site? Posts in vet's offices? I know, you've already been run ragged keeping those kids alive! Hitting vet's offices takes time & gas (maybe if you phone with your story and a pre-written ad they would copy it and tack it onto their board?) My heart goes out to you, you've gone above & beyond! I just can't see you being ok with losing even a couple to other-critter-feed when you worked so hard to keep them all alive, especially the couple that were not doing so good...
 
Read my last post :p
But that's just "I can't find anywhere to put them after months of exhausting my other options"
Anyways, the babies are all much better. But all work no play make rocky go something something. My girlfriend is coming over for a night or two on her days off this week so she'll play mommy for a bit and I can get some sleep. Naps kinda stink now. But at least I'm not idle, I've been working on getting things ready for the critter nation, making more chew toys and hammocks. Today I got a 3 layer honeycomb hammock done and a huge tunnel 8) my grandma is a quilter and she gave me a big Rubbermaid full of her "scraps" (which is like meters and whole square feet of fleece) so I've been on a roll
Mattiees babies are starting to hop, it's kind of like watching popcorn. Mae's babies are fat and squishy, since there are only 7 of them. But my two little guys are 14 grams today, woo hoo! Plus they're starting to grow hair and pudge out. I'm thinking of naming them Yuae and Shippo, they're just so darned cute. And hungry. I've moved up to an eye dropper since the small paintbrush can't satisfy them anymore :p but they're getting quite wiggly and I think I'll need a bigger piece of fleece for restraining them soon


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Yay! I'm so glad the babies are thriving under your care. :D
And having the babies at the store is a great option if you trust the person there to take care of them and represent their best interests. At least they will have more space, and more exposure to potential new homes. I hope it all comes together for you and your new babies!
 
I think between me, Mattiee and old man, well be able to get these babies up to size :) when me and Mattiee are busy or in between feedings I've been putting old man in the babies nursery tank. He's a doll, he just curls up with them and sleeps. I've put Zu Zu in a few times since he's one of Mattiees sweeter, gentler babies and he is really gentle with them, but he gets excited and wants them to play and he starts hopping everywhere. They're like popcorn


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I guess this thread is getting old, but I'll keep updating in case anyone is looking anymore :)
The babies are 14 and 15 grams to tonight, and I noticed something odd. Mae's other supersized babies are all chubby white babies with black faces and black eyes, Mae's mini babies are white and grey and the other one seems to be a PEW. I'm probably just over thinking things. But the PEW boy is super sweet.
Mattiees babies are eating tons of solid food now, and she getting a little sick of them. She and the mini babies have been clocking in a lot of time together
Also while the adults ignored the things I made for them and fabric is fabric to them, the babies are all over the toys and the mini babies seem to appreciate the really cuddly fleece I got for them. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy :p


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Such sweet little bubs.. you've really come through for these guys and done a lot for them. I don't know if their coloration has something to do with the fact that they're smaller, but since Megacolon can be detected through high whites, I'd keep an eye on them. Plus, since mom tried to get rid of them, she may know something was off. Hopefully it's nothing though, they were just the runts, and everything will work out!

I love the pictures. They're getting so big!
 

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