God help me where do I even start....

[littledevils]

Can I just ask you not to flood the shelter with calls? I know you guys mean well but it can make shelter workers extremely pissed off and they will shut down to anything, incl. offers to get rats out.

Please wait until the rats we and other groups are willing to take can get out.

We have about 40 now that we can take... I would hate it if the shelter shuts down and just kills them all and I have seen it happen... dealing with shelters is a very sensitive thing to do and if you come and bombard them and tell them how they suck they will often refuse to work with anybody.

They even got calls from PETA ok..... It is nasty. The shelter did not sign up for that either, they are not set up at all for rats.

I know it sucks but please let the groups get the rats out alive.

 

[fenshae]

I agree with littledevils -- I know how frustrated everyone is with the feeder situation, but I can guarantee you it will NOT help to put any pressure on the shelter about it. having been down there a few times myself, I know they're panicked and confused and they have a lot of other things on their plate. If this rat situation became any more of a pain for them, they'll just shut down the operation entirely and all this hard work everyone's put in will very rapidly be for nothing.

I'm in the process of writing up press releases and trying to get the media back on a more rat-friendly scope, but PLEASE don't harass the shelter. Remember, I have to live down here and deal with this shelter in the future. If I get the reputation as "that crazy rat person who got all of her friends to gang up on us when we needed her help" then I'll have a harder time with any OTHER rats that come through there that need my help.

Let's just focus on getting as many out alive and loved as possible. Thanks for all the help that I've gotten so far, and that continues to pour in....I really can't stress enough how amazing and inspiring it's been to work toward getting the help these guys need.

 

[littledevils]

Susan just got off the phone with the shelter. There is no rats in the building left. NONE.

They are getting more in from the house but they will not hold them. We are TRYING.

 

[victoria]

ETA: I was typing out this message when littledevils made the last post. That's so heartbreaking.

What can we do to help? I don't want to make the situation worse and certainly don't have room for anymore rats right now (even if I could get them to me) but is it possible to organize and try to show the shelter that there are people who want to help and that the situation is not hopeless? The SPCA here has done a handful of large seizures from collectors and has managed to find homes for many, with the a lot of help of a lot of people on this forum. They could have done better but they also did not advertise that they were available as feeders... that's so extreme and incredibly inhumane.

Fenshae, are there any reporters at one of your local papers that may be open minded enough to interview you and actually research pet rats a little bit to write an article? Maybe if people saw the story from a different perspective they may speak out. They got the OSPCA to stop a mass euthanization a while back because of the public response, maybe the same can happen there.

 

[littledevils]

The new batch of rats will come in MOnday at noon but they can't hold them. Is there anybody locally who can pull some until we can arrange transport wiht Travis (we haven't been able to get ahold of him yet)

 

[fenshae]

I did speak with two reporters, but obviously the rat-sympathetic story was not as popular with the viewing public -- one station actually aired me on the 10 o'clock news but cut that segment out of the footage they put online. I've been sending out press-releases and emails to every station trying to get them to listen to me that there is this huge movement in the works to get these rats relocated, but what we need is TIME.

I'm going to contact our local no-kill....I know they can't hold onto rats long-term, BUT if I can get her to just hold some long enough for us to get them transported out, then we won't have to worry about this debacle.

Littledevils....I'm afraid to ask, but WHY are there no rats? is it because the reptile-guys cleaned them out, or did they destroy them?

 

[victoria]

If the shelter is so dead set on destroying them/giving them away to anyone who wants them, could we not turn to PETA or a similar group for help. For an organization that's supposed to be protecting animals, they really are doing a horrible job. Has anyone explained that some of the rats they gave away may be used for breeding and that those breeders' stocks may get out of control and repeat the cycle? There are people obviously trying to help but they are dead set on getting rid of all the rats ASAP.

 

[fenshae]

PETA isn't exactly in the habit of finding homes for animals. For the most part they're anti-pet and have a pretty nasty reputation for euthanizing adoptable animals. I for one refuse to work with them.

HSSNM is making a terrible mess of this but I can understand where they're coming from. They've never seen a situation like this before, they're not equipped to deal with them, they're under a huge amount of stress and media attention that they're not used to, none of them particularly like or understand rats to begin with, and they genuinely believe they're doing the right thing by letting the rats "be put to good use". I know it's terrible and abhorrent and not a decision we would have made, and I'll try to talk to them and gently remind them that feeder breeders = more potential rats ending up on their doorstep again.

But I really don't want them to balk and shut down any potential communication I have in the future with any other situations that arise because I've caused them trouble, you know?

 

[littledevils]

PETA did not call to offer help for the animals, PETA urged the shelter to euth instead of giving them as snake food (that's what the shelter told us)

One thing to keep in mind is that this is an itty bitty shelter. They are absolutely not equipped to handle this. They live in an area where animal welfare isn't actually top priority, people don't spay/neuter... Canadian shelters are a luxury compared to this ok. They have barely money for food for the animals. There's no resources.

So to call them and beat them up for tough choices they have to make really doesn't serve anything other than making them feel bad and having them shut down to offers for actual help. They are not the ones that let this hoarding situation get out of control, nobody enjoys to kill animals.

SO unless you actually go there and HELP and get animals out... don't judge, don't make them feel miserable. They didn't cause this.

It sucks big time. BIG TIME. But it is what it is. We are trying and won't give up until it is too late.

 

[victoria]

I have issues with PETA for the same reason that I have issues with GreenPeace, that pick and choose issues to sensationalize and in the process give their respective movements a bad name, but at the same time they are both very good at getting noticed and press. I didn't realize they had issues with keeping domestic animals as pets though, I find their campaigns too extreme and unrealistic and have never investigated them further.

I understand they are overwhelmed, but for an organization that is supposed to be protecting animals to encourage and enable live feeding is wrong. They have been offered some help (from you, LMR, Travis, some goosemoosers) but they don't want anything to do with these rats. I understand it's unlikely that homes can be found for all the rats and I'd be upset if all these rats were euthanized, but I would be able to see their side. I cannot get past giving them away as feeders. It's wrong, it's inhumane, it's unacceptable from an animal shelter. They would never dream of doing this with kittens but they do it with rats because they don't value them as much.

I know you are trying to keep the lines of communication open and given the circumstances, that's probably best. I'm just disgusted with the situation.

ETA: Once again, littledevils beat me to it. The situation does suck and I understand they think they are doing what's best given their resources. I still think they are wrong, but I am not looking to make them fell badly but to see if there's anything we can do to help the rats. Whether it be writing letters, sending money, helping get the word out to see if we can find homes for some of them.

 

[littledevils]

For an organization that's supposed to be protecting animals, they really are doing a horrible job.

Just wanted to say they are not an organization that is supposed to be protecting animals... they are plain and simple animal control... big difference between a private shelter/rescue and animal control... private shelters/rescues can refuse to take in an animal which means htey can keep their numbers under control. Animal control cannot refuse an animal. They are dealing with over 15000 animals each year in a fairly small community. And they are most definitely not equipped to handle rats at all.

But I really don't want them to balk and shut down any potential communication I have in the future with any other situations that arise because I've caused them trouble, you know?

This really is key, what people need to understand... I often get frustrated with shelters, local ones or shelters far away but again, esp. when dealing with animal control, things are often out of their control, they are not here to protect the animals etc. They have a contract with the city to clean up essentially. Now sometimes you have shelter that does both, it depends from city to city..

You do want to build a relationship with them and it can take time and can be very fragile. Curtis at the shelter told us he's not particularly fond of rats but he also doesn't want to kill them. But if there are no resources then what are you supposed to do?

Here is a small rescue in Canada who calls them and says we can take 40 rats and we have a private pilot... how does this sound to a person who doesn't know you, who has never dealt with enthusiastic rat ppl... it sounds like it's somebody from a looney bin that calls you.

However if we can get rats out... and he sees that we do stick to our word, that we don't just make up things... shoudl another similar situation arrise again in the future in Las Cruces and we can help, then he knows we're not just some crazy people, that we will actually do it and they will be more inclined to hold rats in the future.

Local shelters here oftne used to kill rats... until I told them we would take them. Once they saw that we stick to our word, they started to email and ask if we can help and so we have a relationship. There's still a lot I hate about shelters but if I burn bridges then they just euthanize the rats and then what purpose does this serve? Nothing.

 

[victoria]

I get your point Simone, and I don't disagree with it, but the situation still sucks. I also thought this was a humane society/SPCA as well as animal control. From an animal control perspective, any of the rats that were given away on a first come first serve basis can theoretically be bred and lead to a repeat of this situation.

Edited to correct a typo.

 

[littledevils]

Gosh yeah it sucks... and for us it's especially frustrating because last night it felt we were so close to getting some into safety... only to get the bad news today... we have room, we should have a pilot lined up... and then they are dead...

That's rescue for you though... It's nothing glammerous or fun, it's dirty, heartbreaking, disgusting.. All you can do is keep on trying.

We rescued over 400 rats in about 2 1/2 yrs... and those are the ones you need to concentrate on.

 

[littledevils]

Sorry if I sound grumpy/mad...

It's just we've been in this situation time and time again and I cannot stress enough what a fine line it can be when dealing with shelters... from working with them and trying to get the animals out... from trying to educate them and try to get them to make changes (ie better diet/housing, not as snake food, simple mite treatments etc)... to them completely shutting you out and just kill them.

I don't want this to happen as it would only hurt the animals.

The shelter really doesn't quite know what hit them. Not just the fact that there are so many rats and they are not equipped.. but they are surrounded by a crazy media frenzy (and having been in that position recently with Matilda you have no idea how INSANE it is and how words get twisted around and things can backfire), they are also getting calls from rescues, PETA, private citizen all telling them what to do or not what to do etc.

 

[SQ]

Hope you are able to find someone to pull them as they come in so they can go to rescues.

It sounded like they may have been going fast

Guzman, of Los Lunas, who rescues ball and Burmese pythons, corn snakes and other reptiles with wife Katherine, is on his way to take "as many as I can have," he said Friday, from the road.

Which is why I asked people to ask the shelter not to let them go as feeders, ealier this afternoon, shortly before they closed for the day. Then I went back and changed the request after you two said for people not to contact them.

 

[victoria]

One of the articles I read also said he was a feeder breeder...

 

[ZoeHale]

Oh. My. God. This is the first time I've read through all of this. When I read what that Guzman guy said about rats "turning cannibal" I honestly laughed. And then I said "Are you fucking kidding me? How stupid do people get!"

Oh lordy. How I wish I could help.

 

[fenshae]

Just talked to Travis. I'm convinced that he may in fact be a gift from god. Anyway, he's going to call the shelter and rationally explain that he really is a pilot, really is willing to transport a large number of rats, and really can foster them in large quantities if they can just give us a little bit of *time*. Whether it'll help or not, I don't know, but I think it might improve our credibility a little if they hear it from his own mouth.

I feel really awful for causing the HSSNM so much trouble. It's hard to understand if you're not from New Mexico, but....we're a poor state. We have enough problems with unemployment and homelessness of PEOPLE that animals aren't exactly anybody's top priority, and ESPECIALLY not rats. We're a small town and this poor shelter's had a rough year already and that I inadvertently brought all of this attention down on their heads....

But then, it was looking hopeless and Travis called, which was a miracle....so maybe I can hold out for another miracle. I just need to have faith, right? I'm sending an email to Safe Haven (the no-kill) tonight and will follow up Monday morning, and Lynn in Rio Rancho is going to see how many fosters she can line up. Goal #1 right now is just getting them out of the shelter so Travis can take them where they need to go.

On a lighter note, finally got a couple semi-decent pictures of the guys:

 

[littledevils]

Smooch the boys from us... they have no idea just how lucky they are...

And yes... keep the faith and keep working on it, at least we will have tried everything

 

[mamarat]

Lucky beautiful boys. :heart: