Alright my favorite rat experts :) only when difficult :) ha

[jorats]

It may not necessarily be hate really.
Yesterday, I had to break up Chief and Max. They've been living together for some time now but they still have their differences. It's to be expected in a colony as it is in a family.
So right now, you are back to the hairless living alone but having play time with the others? The other four are all living together now?

 

[hopefloats]

yes they are............ I figured I would of had them fix by now, didn't take into account my truck breaking down lol.......... the whole group is fine together if Templeton and dopey are not around, the other 4 sleep together hang out play, those two get put in the mix and it is just a constant fight

 

[jorats]

You could try one one on intros, or maybe the two hairless with Templeton. See what happens when he's alone with the two?

 

[hopefloats]

it is the same. I have had just Templeton and dopey on my shoulder or hours at a time. I have had just them two out, I have had the 3 out, LOL the end result is the same. It all stems from their first meeting when Templeton bit dopey s back, then the repeated bites, dopey doesn't trust him at all. The others see how dopey acts and they dont trust him either. I have taken the playplace away, put the on a table with nothing because they are usually scared when you have nothing for them, then gave them one box and all of them pile in there, then a fight breaks out. i have tried multiple boxes, no boxes, beds no beds lol Toby handles it differently he lays there kinda freezes when Templeton is around so he don't get bit much anymore but they did roll down the cage after i cleaned it the other day. I have given the hairless time out alone, the haired time out alone, and alone is the only time they are happy and normal rats. That is why I am almost at the point of giving up. I think it is like with dogs, when One acts unstable, the dominant one will try to get them back in line, dopey is constantly unstable with them around, which is why we moved to having separate out times and living. he gained his weight back and he will walk around the cage freely now as long as he knows they are not around. Have you had rats that just cannot get along with others?

 

[hopefloats]

everyday, I try, i hold both of them, make them calm down, put them on my shoulders alone, it just doesnt work. I havent gave up i have continued to try, i just havent found anything that alleviates the fights/

My fiance tolerates my rats, he feels bad for dopey lol he will give dopey food and make me "save" him. Now my fiance isn't an animal person by any means. but he sees dopey sitting there freaking out and he feels bad for him LOL

 

[jorats]

Have you had rats that just cannot get along with others?

Not after a neuter. :thumbup:

 

[hopefloats]

figured I was due for an update since I havent posted much. After the winter drama, not being able to get to the vet, then the car breaking down still not getting there, and just watching how my boys interact with each other and without each other. I have stopped the intros. Templeton is still getting fixed, he is just to crabby, I havent set up an official date yet, because I was making sure he was over his cold that he ever so politely shared with the other rats in the house. Finally they are done sneezing, no wheezing but I am keeping Templetons set on an extra humidifier duty for a little while longer.

this was such a horrible/grand experience with the boys. I learned a lot of how a bad introduction goes lol. Dopey and Templeton do not like each other. Dopey even now, if he sees him he freaks out and runs screaming, I was hoping he would forget but I guess they have a better memory that what I ever gave them credit for. I may still get dopey fixed but I am not sure, I thought maybe he was scared for life but it is only with those boys. It is odd I never really was able to know dopey, he was super shy when we got him off of CL, then we started intros and he because this little fear ful guy that was always screaming. So after time out with toby and dopey alone, I like who they are much better without the others around. They are so much more playful than the others, super playful. DOpey and toby will run around all day playing then do a little cuddle up.

My daughter talked me into well guilt trip and I am a sucker, so we have 3 little guys for the hairless group. they are double the size they were, we have them fattened up.

Eli is on the left, In which she borrowed from the one and only Eli, bart is in the middle and Edgar is on the right.

Dopey totally loves them. After a few days of constant humping on all parts LOL they all cuddle up and sleep. Dopey and Toby will take turns chasing them and playing with them. Toby ended up being the new alpha for this group, he put them in line one time and it was a nice one, not like how templeton does lol

We brought the sp cage back, So the haired group lives in there. I put the girls iN Double FN and I put this group in the FF becaue the spacing is smaller. But they are all a 1000 times happier, I of course had to make the vet fund larger adn it is now their own bank account LOL but I have a group of happy rats now.

 

[hopefloats]

so you thought this thread was dead huh? fat chance!

It was a hard decisions to stop intros. but in my heart I felt it was the best thing. dopey was not backing up, his fear level was way to high. I really think he needed to build some confidence, which I think the 3 black rats have helped him do.

almost 3 weeks since the crabby bottom boys have been neutered and I started doing some water testing. The shift is still going on in Templeton group, I really think that Loki is taking over. Once I figure out it might be from the brief meeting they had, i figured, i should move forward. Or have chaos in my groups.

My 10 boys- talk about a lot to watch this was one of the first photo shoots so i could get a picture of all my boys

I started with a few meetings a day, no more than a few minutes. Some times it would be 3 minutes because attitude would start and I did not want it to start with them. I have slowly worked up until the attitude started, in which i would stop.

I am their safety net I get close all 10 try to climb me

2nd day, they are not ready for a box, they were a bit nippy, so i took the box away, but nothing like before,

3rd day, i start them out with nothing, then added to it to test it, lasted about 20 mins before tempers flared. still had multiple meetings though

day 4 Templeton was nippy. He is still a bit nervous of them. I pulled my chair up to the table so they could get on my lap for cuddles, which was a big success for them

had a few on me

My daughter joined in

later that day they shared peas and corn

Day 5 was last night. I made a blocked off area on the floor so my daughter and myself could watch a movie.. had a cage for them to run to for comfort.

Dopey has his moments where he stands up in defense mode, I grab him and the other involved and hold them down. They generally get up and walk in different directions. I am starting to see some grooming, mostly from the younger guys but that is a big deal for these guys

Bart one of the black rats, he is a humper, all he does is run around and hump them. Loki did not like it at all, he intervened pinned him down, he wasn't biting so I let it go, the little guy has to learn.

I took Loki off of him when he started biting at him, Bart kinda laid there frozen for a few seconds after lol

Day 6 today back to the table I am giving them the cage though, so far it is working out, they have been out for a few hours, no bites, some attitudes showed but i held them down for a few and they went on. I take templeton out for a cuddle on occasion, put him on my lap with me for a bit, rub his head till he changes his mood then i put him back.

In all it is going really good. Templeton does not have the hate that he had, he is not attacking or chasing them now. Dopey does not cower in fear, he has his moments but they are easily changed. I am taking major precautions to stop him from getting bit, till he reaches a better comfort level.

This is my current plan for as long as it take, the table meetings go well, so till i see a shift in attitudes we wont try a neutral place yet.

 

[Kimber]

Yay!!! looka like your patience and determination is paying off...how is your sanity? lol

 

[hopefloats]

actually it is good LOL no worse than normal days. Right now they are all on the table sleeping peacefully. they shared an apple and took a nap. It is by far less stressful right now. I am taking what I did the first time and changing it a bit, since i know they are a difficult group, i am spending a lot more time focusing on the scary table area.

 

[jorats]

Yay!!! I'm so glad it's back on. But it's right to take time off. When the human is not feeling it, then it's time to take a breather.
Great pics, good observations. A few places where you intervened while I wouldn't but I reminded myself that all intros are unique and you have to go with what feels good to you.
Good job!!!!

 

[hopefloats]

I know I suck at the intervening part LOL I will be the first to say that. I try not to, but like Loki and Bart, he started biting and i got worried :laugh4: I am hoping to keep the attitude down for a bit, I know i cant do it forever, but I am hoping they will get some level of comfort with each other that when it does start it wont be so hard on the wimpy one (mainly dopey) we have had a few major stare downs, i left those, but with Templeton and dopey, I am putting them in a hold because those two were my problem rats. as of right now, they are still out, sleeping in that cage i put out for them, most of them are in a pile, Mr. templeton, is on the other side as usual, he wont really sleep with them, although i did see him and edgar out for a little snuggle. It has been at least 4 hours now..

 

[jorats]

Keep in mind there are some rats that just prefer to sleep alone, some don't like sharing smells.

 

[hopefloats]

Keep in mind there are some rats that just prefer to sleep alone, some don't like sharing smells.

I was thinking that, but you can tell he just avoids them mainly. I think I know them all better now than I did before, so I think this will help me in the long run. my main concern is the interaction with him and the boys.

So far he has changed a lot with the neuters, so have the others now I just have to convince dopey of this

 

[jorats]

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[hopefloats]

wow so I must say. It is going how an intro should go. Templeton had one of the younger boys pestering him, he did not attack. He respectfully groomed him. That say's a lot coming from my bruiser boy Templeton!

I see him laying there on the table, sleeping, babies running all over him, he didn't even move, like he was ok with it. Dopey is being a little stand offish, but in all he doesn't have the fear. I figure that this fear will go away once he sees that Templeton is not trying to kill him anymore. he runs up to other boys, i can see them trying to find their space in this newly forming group. It is unreal to watch them go smoothly.

It was going so positive on the table, I took their blanket, their cage and moved it to the common area, they shared a jar of baby food, and not one little scuffle. They have only had little stand ups but not the knock down drag out ones i used to watch. they have been out almost all day together, and i am just beyond ecstatic. Literally we have not had any scuffles. Now if i could just figure out how to stop bart from humping them all, life would be almost grand. :cheeky:

 

[jorats]

Bart will eventually stop, it won't take long for one of the bigger boys to pin him and tell him, no, bad humping.
That is great about Templeton!
Is Dopey neutered? I can't remember if you had him done as well.

 

[hopefloats]

No dopey is not yet. I have dopey left, and the 3 black rats. The rest are all neutered. My daughter cleaned her room, shocker in itself, so she has a area set up for the rats, so she has all 10 boys in there, another good scary place for them to meet since they haven't been in her room before. he still shows his little defense mode a bit, but templeton doesnt chase him. I hope that he will just chill out with it.

 

[jorats]

Ah...ok. You'll probably see a big difference once he's done.

How very nice of your daughter to have made a place for the rats in her room. So sweet!

 

[hopefloats]

The boys have been out all day together, only minor scuffles. They spend most of the day with my daughter, i brought them in here about 7 to feed them. about 3 1/2 hours ago, they are still here and on the common area.

Bart is still being mr humpy pants........ he gets on a humping spree, and he will nail every boy in his path lol. It is hard to not laugh, but i know he is going to get his from one of the older boys, they will not take this without him buying them dinner first. :dance:

I watched two of my black rats, gang up on loki, he squeaked, stood up, that was the extent of it. I saw dopey run after one of the other boys, loki i think......

they have been in mixed groups sleeping, a few times all of them in one pile.

Templeton clearly has more patience than he did prior to his neuter, he is not as easily angered. In all they all eat, drink, and will avoid each other. I really truly hope we are on the right path this time.