Alright my favorite rat experts :) only when difficult :) ha

[Fidget]

Are you sure Toby isn't playing with the others? I remember once when I had two 12 months old brothers who seem to be at each other's throats. But when I hid to watch them, I noticed they were actually playing and have a great time of it. When Toby does this... how do the rats around react? Do they go hide, do they freeze in place? or do they come running to see what's happening?

Good point this! Even after 12 yrs of intros I learn, or re-learn. Is the biting actual biting? I just did intros and 1st day existing girl Smitten was right on new boy Bob's butt constantly, and I mean her nose following his butt constantly! and nipping at him periodically. He's a hyper little dude and was running all over and would just turn his side to her or push her away periodically, he finally started pinning her, so I started pushing her away when she nipped and ended intros to give him some peace.. Day 2 same and I interferred again and stopped intros after a couple hours. Day 3 I realized nobody was getting really hurt, but nothing was changing - they were expecting me to be a buffer! so I shut my eyes, sat on my hands and let them go to it, they ended up tiring each other out and sleeping together and spent the night together and have been perfect since. She doesn't nip or harass him anymore..
Obviously neither wanted to hurt each other, Smitty just didn't know how to play nice, never met a boy and has been alone since Sept 7. My interference didn't help, Bob had to teach her himself. And Noel? She was all over him too in the hammock (but gently so I didn't interfere) and he'd just take it, then groom her when she backed off, they were great 2nd day.
So I'm thinking maybe Smitty was just wanting to play and Bob knew it. I might have delayed things by jumping in and controlling the game they were playing :cop:

 

[hopefloats]

We are past the point of them getting hurt thank god. I really stopped getting in the middle, but it doesn't change. This with toby is really the firdt actual change I have saw from them in weeks. Toby seems to almost barber the boys, he bites their fur and then almost eats it . He ties to play with them but they generally run off. Toby was different he was really going after them. I just know when toby steps up so does templeton, then he gets a lot of attitude.

In the cage they get in the cozy igloo and freeze templeton spends all his time huffing at them, then he will lay by them and sleep if they come out he bites at them, I have even saw him rubbing his side on the bottow of they cage where the other igloo is. I might just need to take the igloos out for a while but he does it not matter what the hairless sleep in

They spend the time hiding, if temple ton is around. They screams are getting less but the attitude in the cage does not.

 

[jorats]

I'd continue putting Templeton in the time out cage. He needs to learn to chill.

 

[hopefloats]

I do lol but he doesn't learn.

 

[jorats]

It will take a few out times before he gets it, unless he looks forward to it and needs to get out and be alone for a bit which means it's a win win situation.

 

[hopefloats]

lol just what i need is a rat who wants to be in a padded cell or solitary confinement, which ever but since I think he is nuts, the padded cell is more fitting.......

They are out right now, hairless are hiding in a pepsi case, the haired boys are running in the play thing. I am waiting to see what they do in the play place before I take it away again today

 

[hopefloats]

Still the same, have done numerous time out sessions for Templeton, he is relentless. outside of the cage, they seem to be crawling a little easier in the pepsi box that they are sharing out here, with less attitude from all but dopey, he still does the same, in the cage, it is the same huffing and puffing happening.

They almost look like they get along LOL

I might go sit on santa lap and tell him all i want for christmas is my rats to get along lol I think that is the last thing to try.

 

[mamarat]

I have a colony, 3 neutered boys and 1 spayed girl who have been together for almost a year now. Some days they still hate each other well except with Cocotte. All the boys love her. The two nakkies still have little cuts on them at times but they're sleeping all together in the hammock in the mornings. Fingers crossed you'll wake up to that one morning too.

 

[hopefloats]

mamarat that is funny that you say that, every single morning since I started this, I check to see who is sleeping with who, then i get sad when i see none of the hairless are with the haired LOL

 

[mamarat]

It will happen!! lol

 

[jorats]

One of these days you'll be jumping for joy.

 

[hopefloats]

So tonight the boys were going at it none stop, Templeton and Dopey are the main problems, the others are fine with each other as long as they are not around.

So I decided to put them in a spot with no where to go, where they would be terrified, My hoodie LOL away from everything in a different room. I stood in front of the mirror for about 30 mins with them on my shoulders

Dopey never lets his guard down

They finally calmed down a bit, so I made both of them climb off me to the table,

I will do this with these two for a while and see if that helps

 

[hopefloats]

Well Tonight was a really, really bad night. Templeton had dopey stuck in the corner, biting at his thighs, face and what ever else he could bite. Right now, templeton is by himself, and the other five are in the bottom half, all is quiet. I let it go for a minute and Templeton was so puffed up and I purposely, put the girls in the other room for the day. I left the boys in their cage with out the bed they tend to fight over. Dopey now freaks out when I open the door and tries to make a break for it, he ran up my shirt, didnt even look for an arm , just scaled right up my hoodie, till he got to my shoulder, which I guess he feels safe with me. He was scrambling for his life, I have never seen him so scared. I am not going to wait for the gash on him to say oh i should of stopped. I will not get him back if he continues to get freaked out by them. I have him with the rats that do not hurt him right now. Even then, I do not know what will help him with him being terrified of the other rats.

he is a wreck, he is a constant ball of nerves and I am just plain done. I am not doing this to him anymore. Templeton is getting his nuts removed, he is lucky i couldn't do it myself lol i am so mad at him. dopey's skin is loose, he is losing weight, and I can no longer justify this. I will still give them the time out together, but I am not going to make it a constant fight for them all day long. Right now I am unsure how to split them up, until Templeton get his man hood attitude removed. I had to wipe poop off dopey from him freaking out an pooping all over himself.

It has been six weeks of trying this, and dopey is getting worse, and Templeton's attacks are getting worse. considering he did this to him 3 times tonight after the 3rd one i split them.

I am calling Monday to make the appointment to get him fixed either way, unless he gets this out of him, it isn't going to change. I could live with flipping, and pinning, but he is not even trying to do that, he is totally biting and doing nothing else. he is tryng to hurt not dominant, he is only producing fear in them not respect.

I really hate this, but his balls are really pissing him off, so they have to go.the group is totally different when Templeton is out of the picture. I am just unsure how to group them in the mean time. I don't know if i should go back to my regular group of 4 and 2 or just rotate the 3 haired that are not mean to them around.

I cannot see any other way to fix this, I might have to have dopey fixed too but I dont know if that will solve the problem with him.

:wallbang: anic: :gaah: :rant: :emb:

 

[jorats]

Oh good. A neuter is a surefire way to calm things down.
I think it's quite a challenge because there are intact females in the home. It can make some rats extremely stressed to the point of just being plain mean.
Templeton is not aggressive but he's mean and needs to pick on someone... in this case Dopey. The thing that could have happened is eventually his relationship with Dopey would improve but he might have chosen someone else to pick on. We have to remember that Templeton is feeling a lot of stress as well. So this will be good for him.

 

[hopefloats]

so in the mean time, so i don't lose all grounds i was on, just give them out time together?

 

[jorats]

Well, if they were mine, they would continue to live together. But if you only want them to have out time together, definitely a good thing to keep going.

 

[hopefloats]

My thing is dopey is only getting worse, it is causing more and more stress on him, he freaks out and just about jumps out of the cage, I know hormones i can change with a little surgery, fear is a lot harder to change. Dopey has became totally fearful of them, I know it can take a few weeks once his testicles are removed for him to calm down.

 

[hopefloats]

i still have not given up hope! we tried yogurt again, this time we had them licking each other not only themselves LOL

My truck still wont start, i had a local place fix the wipers got it home and it would not start 20 minutes later. My fiance is suppose to fix it this week end, I hope so I really really want these two fixed. I am so tired of seeing this happening.

2+ months of intros! LOL

other than that no changes, occasional licks, grooms and playing but still fighting and fear from the hairless

 

[jorats]

Nothing wrong with taking it slow. It took my one group over 3months.

 

[hopefloats]

When you have a "special" rat like my dopey LOL have you tried to introduce it to just one rat, one with hair to try and ease the transition? He is kinda freaked out with templeton, I wonder if it would be easier if he could gain confidence with just meeting one of the rats? still with out a car, my honey is freezing outside in our 13degree weather right now trying to fix it so i am wondering what else i can try to help dopey get over his hate of templeton.............

templeton just attacked toby, so he dont like either of them, nothing major, but it was rolling from the top layer to the bottom, so i broke it up before they fell and hurt themselves.