Alright my favorite rat experts :) only when difficult :) ha

[jorats]

Wow, it's sounding very good. Yay for Templeton. I'm sure it wasn't fun for him having all that stress before, you did him a big favour.

 

[hopefloats]

so talk about a major day.......

Today was cage cleaning day.......so since i knew the crabby bottom boys are not used to the FN, they would not be so prone to act like they own it as they have in the past so plus they are neutered now

I had them out with their little set up again, everything went fine. So I pulled the empty cage to "test the waters" again, and it has been 7 hours since i put them in there.

Mr. Templeton getting man handled by one of the young bucks, Just prior to this, he was grooming him! I have never seen templeton groom a rat out of his group of boys. I was so excited. and what you see is the extent that temple does.

I watched templeton sit in the box, while the boys tormented him, they are about 4 months old, so still very hyper, and all he did was squeak at them. Loki boxed with a few but that was the extent of it.

Ludo bit edgar, he was a bit puffy from it, ludo was not sure about Toby being on him at all.

templeton prefers to sleep in the corner, but bart went to sleep with him, for once, he did not run off.

Dopey is the only problem, everyone else seems to be blending in fine. Same old song and dance, but to different music. He isnt getting attacked, he is just fearful of them. I dont know if that will stop in time, or if i am wasting my time till i get him fixed.

and then we have dopey, mr hate pants. I am so angry at myself for not taking him in when i took the other boys, but i had to pick the ones that needed it most, and the others won

You touch him and he is shaking. Do i give it a few days and see how it goes, or what do you think. regardless it is going so well I think i am going to leave them in there tonight, I will probably sleep close by so i can listen for screams, finley is still small and a major Pita to the others LOL but they really seem to be getting along, better than I have ever seen them.

 

[jorats]

I would tel Mr Dopey to suck it up and leave him in there. He'll get used to it. He should soon clue into the happiness of the young ones and relax. I would definitely leave him in there until his neuter, but I would make sure he was next to be neutered.

 

[hopefloats]

I found that when the cozygloos from your sister are in there, Templeton has a lot of attitude if anyone gets in it LOL..... I took those out to say the least. Last night I remove loki and templeton and put them in another cage, left ludo and al in there. I put them back first thing this morning.

Templeton was boxing Bart again, but he is a village humper so he deserves it. -Templeton is sleeping with Bart right now so i guess they are not that upset at each other. Dopey is coming out and eating so he isn't to traumatized. I still see them trying to take over halves of the cage, I move them around if i see them to separated, not constantly but i do mix them up a bit.

I had my daughter take Templeton and Dopey in her room for a few hours, they slept with each other a little bit, had a few little scuffles but nothing major.

 

[jorats]

Good job!

 

[hopefloats]

Tuesday night dopey got an eyelid injury from Mr. T. They were in the cage all day wednesday but at night I took loki and Templeton out of the cage for safe keeping.

Wednesday morning, I put them back, all day. Blocked off the bottom half of the fn, and let them in the top and the play area, free running all day pretty much.

I have been taking them all on the couch with me, and treats, which is fun with 10 boys at once.

Wednesday night, I left them in the cage together and they made it without any fights. I slept about 2 feet away from them. Just in case.

Thursday, they have been together non stop since yesterday morning. I hear little protest screams from grooming but nothing major for almost 2 days. A major record with these boys.

My black rats: the menace trio, chase the boys non stop. Templeton will stand with them a bit showing how bad he is, an occasional hiss, then stop off for sleep. He has not caused them any harm though. He does not want anyone sleeping when him most of the time and will nip them, but I have found them mixing groups sleeping.

templeton still tries to own the bottom half of the fn, they havent lived in there for months. Yet he stills try to act like it is his kingdom and chase the other rats out. The menace trio, defy that rule, which is actually helping him with allowing rats in there.

So we are off for another session on the couch, hopefully we can get there this time

 

[jorats]

Love that menace trio!!!

 

[hopefloats]

Dopey is not as innocent as he likes to think he is. Last night during the out time on the couch, dopey was chasing Templeton. He would run up to him, stare at him, when Templeton would move, he would run off to the cage. He would then run right back to templeton and do it over again. He is kinda testing him lol

A few times he would walk by dopey, dopey would run after him.

 

[jorats]

Almost sounds like playing.

 

[hopefloats]

Toby who is the former alpha of the group, is fine with giving up alpha to templeton. He seems to test the water a lot with Templeton. Templeton, loki and ludo were laying under a bucket, toby wanted in. He walked in there so slowly, inching his way in waiting to see if he could or if he would get nipped by Templeton. They let him in there, templeton stayed for a few minutes then left.

It is funny to watch him climb in so slowly, you know he is just trying to see what will happen to him for going in there but he gets in anyway.

Toby test templeton again

If one starts having attitude, they all get defensive. It is strange to see how contagious the attitude is among the boys.
dopeys favorite pose. He never bites, it is beyond me why he acts like he is going to.

This is either respect or fear from the ones around templeton LOL they all watch him when he walks by

part of the menace trio with templeton, They test him, he bites, they scream then they all go on about their business.

I have been doing a lot of out time with them all. I take their cage to the couch and let them run in and out pretty much. Dopey will hide under my blanket by my leg most of the time. He has his moments where he will groom one of the trio boys till they cry, then he go away happy that he still has it.

yesterday and last night was totally quiet. Not one noise from the cage with all of them in there. The others are getting more comfortable together, Algernon, templeton seem to take the longest to warm up, but I really think they are father and son, so that would make sense.

Templeton treats the menace trio totally different from the 3 hairless, he is harder on them. It is like he knows they are different and he is trying to pick on them because of it.

In all I think we can almost say they "live" together. Which to me is amazing, this road has been rough. Dopey freaks out, but he comes out of the cage, and he doesn't get chased or attacked by Templeton as often as before. The last time that is all you would hear is Dopey screaming. I still need to find something that works for him to calm down, but we are almost there.

 

[jorats]

It's looking good.
But I can assure you, Templeton does not treat them differently because they are hairless, he probably doesn't really realize it. Rats don't do sight, they smell the rats and hear the sounds and signals they make. If he's treating them differently, that's because those boys are sending out different signals, maybe unstable signals.
There was a study, (posted on the forum) where baby mice from a litter shared a "song" and that's probably how they connected with their colony. (mom and dad) Different litters had different songs. I'm sure this is the same case with rats. The hairless probably have a different song and Templeton needs to get used to that.

 

[hopefloats]

Ok that is interesting, I will have to look for that. The 3 black rats, are in, he is perfectly fine with them, the 3 hairless, he still nips. Finley has became a screamer so he acts like dopey, Toby is pushy so he is always putting his head under his.

It is not nearly as bad as before, it is mostly quiet in the cage. Ludo, al, loki, play with the other rats, lay with them, including toby, but templeton takes some adjusting.

it is nice so i have the window open for them, they lay in it. well dopey was laying there and templeton puffed up, then when I touched him he squeaked. The menace trio are free willed so they could care less about who is with them, more to hump for bart. I am just unsure how to help them along or just keep leaving them like i am.

templeton and the hairless are the only problems in this cage, i hope after a few more days they will calm down a bit more, it seems to get a little better each day.

 

[jorats]

I'd leave them be and call it the colony, no more trying to help them, if they don't like each other so be it. I mean, with my two humans sons, they will never ever get along and there's just nothing I can do about it, they are still part of the family. See what I mean?

 

[hopefloats]

but your human sons dont leave teeth marks on each other LOL or gashes! :laugh4:

We had a little episode tonight, templeton chased finley around the table. but he couldnt catch him lol

 

[jorats]

but your human sons dont leave teeth marks on each other LOL or gashes! :laugh4:

You haven't seen my sons. :giggle:

 

[hopefloats]

Templeton took a few days, to become a jerk to the boys. So he is now out of the cage with his brother loki.

after some brain storming, we are now going to introduce Loki and Templeton to the girls.

When they are side by side, they spend the time sniffing each other like crazy, no attitudes show. They also sleep on the side of the cages closest to each other.

I let them meet outside yesterday. Mally (the small blue girl) is reunited with her brothers for the first time.

Today I gave them a plate of banana's and put them on our usual table that we do intro's on. These are way different from male/male intros.


I see the girls going to the boys and getting on their side. the boys stand on them, then will try and groom them a bit. it is odd but you can see how gentle the boys are with the girls. they move up to them slowly, like they dont want to scare them. I gave them about 30 minutes together, then I put the boys in the girls cage, and I put the girls in the boys cage for a little bit.

Mally was a tad bit bitey, but she is always the problem girl so i kinda figured her or pika would be an issue.

Pika takes them ok, she was pinned a few times by the boys. All they do is sniff crotches it is unreal LOL. you can see them doing the heat dance, the boys are a little unsure what to do i think lol.

These are totally different from what i am used to. I am unsure what to look for, what the reason is behind their actions, i dont know the mating rituals of rats.

The other cage, has a group of 8 rats. Toby, dopey, Edgar, Bart, Eli, Finley, and I left ludo and al with them. dopey has been scared for a few days, which prompted this change, I guess he is babied LOL. the 3 hairless guys did not take to templeton being in there at all. The change for them was instant. Dopey runs around grooming rats, Playing and looking more confident. The night with them was totally quiet, ludo and al sleep with the other rats in the group. I think after a few days it will level out a bit and they will be fine. Right now you can tell they are trying to find their role in the cage. I am unsure if toby is alpha or dopey, but they are being good regardless, not biting to be mean.

hopefully I will have a mixed group of 7 rats, and an all male group of 8. it was hard breaking ludo and al up from Templeton and loki, but they now play more, i think templeton really inhibited their ability to play like they should. They are different now, happy it seems.

Hopefully this will calm the urge of the girls wanting the boys, since they will have two. The urge for templeton to be at the girls, since that seems to be a driving factor in him.

my 4 foot super pet cage, is great. It reduces, with a little help from me and a pair of pliers to a grand manageable sized 2ish foot cage to house 2 rats in

 

[jorats]

Mixed colonies are the best and you'll see the most fun to watch. I also find them the easiest to intro.

edited for missing words. Gah, I must be tired.

 

[Ollie]

FUN FUN FUN!
Adorable ratties!

 

[hopefloats]

FUN FUN FUN!
Adorable ratties!

LoL this has been everything but fun.......they drive me nuts with these intros

Mixed colonies are the best and you'll see the most fun to watch. I also find them the easiest to intro.

edited for missing words. Gah, I must be tired.

I am seeing this already, even the intro's are totally different the way they act around each other. I cannot go by what Templeton was doing with the boys, so i think i am learning him all over again. but bindi being in heat, is way to funny to watch..

I notice the boys will sneak over to a sleeping girl, and lay by her and go to sleep. It is so strange to see templeton who would not lay with any new rat, laying by a girl! I am getting excited

 

[Kimber]

glad to hear the girlies are doing good with boys