Alright my favorite rat experts :) only when difficult :) ha

[hopefloats]

Templeton has not let up at all, Dopey will not come out of the bed he is in, Templeton searches him out , stands outside of his bed, huffs, puffs and hits at the bed, Dopey sits in there screaming, loud enough that I can hear him upstairs in my bedroom. They are not getting hurt, but Templeton is not budging. Even Toby stays hidden in the bed. It is just unreal the determination that Templeton, and it doesn't matter what bed dopey is in, if he gets in it, Templeton wants to punk him out of it. They wont even go in the play place hardly because templeton or the other bully them out of it.

Toby was making ludo squeak tonight, rough housing with him, templeton ran up to the top and started putting a whooping on toby LOL he was protecting his group, it was cute in a mean way LOL

 

[hopefloats]

and the other thing, dopey wont come out to go to the bathroom, he pooped all over toby, and they kindly smeared it around on his back,

 

[jorats]

Do you have a small cage you could sit on top of the main cage? A time out cage... with nothing in it, no water, no toys, nothing. Each time Templeton is making Dopey scream and be scared, pull Templeton out and put him in his time out cage for about 10 minutes. Do this each time.

 

[hopefloats]

yeah i do, I will try that when i get back, he is just being a bully, making me want to scream lol

 

[hopefloats]

Well they are still living together, rats still dont get along, they no longer have the joys of the play house, only one bed and the table, since it was becoming to many scuffles in there, Hopefully dopey and templeton will chill out soon, I dont like seeing them stressed.

 

[jorats]

Keep them living together. Tell yourself there are no other options, they must live together. Be strong!

 

[hopefloats]

I am, Templeton fights him everywhere, so I found out this is the one time he doesnt fight them, I honestly think it is the girls smell, I let the girls use the "ratmahal" play thing, the boys do not get to use it anymore, So they get along a lot better, So I am trying to figure out what they are telling me to do lol if dopey would calm down some, I think templeton would stop being on guard, The only time I can get some of them to lay together on their own, is with limited items out there, right now they have a plastic bed, and a pop case, the hairless and 2 of the haired rats are in there, Templeton and his little mini Templeton AL, is in the other box. The more I watch al, the more it is i know templeton is his dad, they are like two peas in a pod, even built the same.

I wonder if it is possible for them to know it is their off spring? what do you think?

 

[jorats]

No, rats don't know their offspring. But you are right in thinking that the girls might have something to do with it. Males can be very stressed out when there are girls around.

 

[Fidget]

Heart & hopes are with you! Doesn't seem fair there's no sure procedure to just follow step-by-step (like instructions for assembling something that comes in a box) for intros, does it? The kids aren't all built the same like the pieces in the box. Paws crossed for you..

 

[hopefloats]

That would make life a lot easier All I know is dopey freaks out and makes himself look like a T-rex rat, templeton acts like the big bad wolf huffing and puffing at their beds LOL I just cannot seem to make those two stop at all. It is beyond me. 6 weeks ago almost that I started this and they still are divided.

 

[Fidget]

Along with all the other suggestions you've had.... Have you tried setting up hidey-houses & interesting things on the bed or couch and then putting dinner in a few different dishes there and then having them all out together for it? I always find that distractions in the beginning help them to focus of something other than each other for a while, and they're gradually getting used to having each other around while it happens. Separate them when they get too nasty with each other. After a few times of that hopefully they're somewhat used to each other.... Remember that what looks awful to us is sometimes just natural to them and separate only for their well-being, not just for your worry.

 

[hopefloats]

Yes, I have resorted to the 6 boys, one plastic box that they can all fit in to sleep in, one litter box, and usually a few bowls of food for bribery purposes Templeton is not as cocky there, so I have left them out for hours and hours on end, till I see them sleeping together for a long period, Dopey still get into his godzilla roll and stands up kinda and keeps his mouth open, usually screaming like a girl. but when I put them back in the cage, massive attitude from Mr. Templeton, and massive fear from dopey, if the hairless are around in the same cage, he will do everything poop, pee, and hide in the bed, he wont come out for nothing, He is not eating like he should in there, or drinking water, I had to put the bottle by him so i can know he is drinking it.

I have put in him another cage, I have pinned him down, yelled Templeton no, which is listens to for about as long as my kids do, I had had them both stuck on me, where they cannot leave, I have rubbed pudding and yogurt on them, I have even tried rubbing them on each other LOL I tried the tub, the floor, the couch, two different tables, one play place, many different boxes. and this is after a week of smell switching LOL Right now, I blocked off the top half of the fn, so that they hairless and haired rats can spend some time down there in the spot that Templeton believes is his domain.

I am kinda at the desperate point, I hate seeing the hairless living like this, They had a rough start their whole life, I finally got them emtionally happy and now they live in fear in their cage.

 

[hopefloats]

and I have also made them all run from my desk to my leg, having to pass each other to get a very tasty treat, epic fail as well LOL

 

[Fidget]

It sounds like you've done absolutely everything you can. Is it necessary to bond them? Honestly, in your shoes I'd say that's enough and put everyone where they want to be for their happiness & peace and yours too. A huge pat on the back for all you've tried, it sounds above & beyond! Time to just all enjoy each other, that time is just too short with these kids... Hugs.

 

[hopefloats]

I am monitoring it, because of the shortness I will have with them, I don't see much changes so I am working on ways to get them happy again. I am giving them time by themselves, hoping dopey can get some confidence back, It isn't necessary to have them together, it just seems like they would like having a whole fn to run in, rather than a half. Right now I have them separated in the cage, the hairless are running about frolicking, I love seem them, they are so funny two super strong hyper personalities, the haired are tearing up the cage i just cleaned lol they are in the opposite halves seem to claim on their own. I open the ramp up and let them run about but templeton just tries to own the cage he is in, I hate it.

The main thing was I had 3 sets with two rats each when I started this, the babies, al and ludo, the older haired templeton and loki and the two hairless, Toby and dopey, I had a hell of a time giving them out time, switching them all so they could be out, my older haired and my babies, are so bonded, they do so well together, I just really wanted the hairless to have that with other rats, especially since it is so cold here during the winter, I will get there, I just have to lower the stress, I think giving them their own time out will help, and own time in the cage will help them.

Of course I am the same one who rubbed pudding on them LOL

I am going to win this, if i have to remove all the manhood berries they own LOL

 

[Fidget]

Lol! It's kind of satisfying knowing we could do that with some of the men in our lives if we've had enough, eh? :wink:
Well, as long as you're enjoying the challenge and they're enjoyed being a challenge then I guess all is well.
Keep looking for that magic key, brave searcher!

 

[jorats]

It sounds like you've done absolutely everything you can. Is it necessary to bond them? Honestly, in your shoes I'd say that's enough and put everyone where they want to be for their happiness & peace and yours too. A huge pat on the back for all you've tried, it sounds above & beyond! Time to just all enjoy each other, that time is just too short with these kids... Hugs.

It took 3 months for my group to bond. And today, Max who hated Doc are the closest any rats could be. I'm glad I stuck it out. It's beautiful to see them bonded, happy and living in a colony as rats should.

 

[hopefloats]

We have change! not with Templeton lol he is still hiding them when they are in the cozy igloo, Toby is picking on Loki and dopey! Toby has been doing alot of the standing on his hind legs, and he even flipped dopey, which I haven't seen before. He ran up to loki and started stuff with him too, he has been doing this all day long. other than that, they are still the same, kinda ok outside the cage, in it, templeton spends his day playing big bad wolf. Toby isnt so much playing it is like he is trying to find his way in the line. The babies are getting his wrath as well. Toby when he plays he popcorns around like crazy, he hops and runs and jumps, when he does this you can tell he is more serious. I hope this will move us forward and not backwards.

 

[jorats]

Are you sure Toby isn't playing with the others? I remember once when I had two 12 months old brothers who seem to be at each other's throats. But when I hid to watch them, I noticed they were actually playing and have a great time of it.
When Toby does this... how do the rats around react? Do they go hide, do they freeze in place? or do they come running to see what's happening?

 

[hopefloats]

no one pays attention to him and dopey lol, they could care less what he does. but dopey is getting attitude over it, Toby is making loki puff up, then he kinda puts his butt to him, or he stands there and does it again, toby chased loki to the box, and was trying to bite him again, he is actually nipping his face a few times. loki is not liking him, but toby has also been taking his food as well, dopey was standing there in his trex mode, and toby grabbed him and flipped him, dopey did his bit of screaming as usual. so dopey ran off pouting, toby followed

this is different, Toby is usually bouncing around hopping when he plays, but today,you can tell he is a little more cocky with it. he isnt even hesitating getting in the bed with the haired rats, usually he stands there and test the water, today, he is just about pushing them out of his way.