Alright my favorite rat experts :) only when difficult :) ha

[hopefloats]

and none of it is working :dance: They still are at it...... :rant: :emb: :wallbang:

 

[jorats]

lol Have you read my blog about my intros? I share your pain. But the end result is so worth it.

 

[hopefloats]

where is it? I need to............

 

[hopefloats]

Well they can sit together with minimal attitude, as long as the cage. he bit toby again, made his nose bleed, so I put them both on the table alone LOL

 

[hopefloats]

put them back on the other table, Templeton instantly gets attitude, then bites tobys back. Seriously? I mean i think he has some sort of deep seeded hate against hairless rats. He might needs some sort of therapy session. So since they dont fight on the other table. back they went. now they are right next to each other, touching, sleeping, really? is there that big of a difference there Mr. templeton?

 

[hopefloats]

I had the cage open for a while for play time, Dopey did not come out at all, you could tell he wanted to, but he does not trust the boys at all. It is instant screams from him anytime one comes near him. Toby has two new bites on his face, which is really starting to annoy me. Templeton will not drop his attitude. at all. I am really beyond the point of knowing what to do. If he sees the hairless at all, it is stand up, puff, or hiss, or slap them, or bite. If I seen some sort of change on his part I would not second guess. I find a few moments of Templeton laying by the boys, but it will last a few seconds then his tude kicks in and he walks away.

My concern, is dopey is peeing, and pooping in this plastic bed, he is not coming out for water like he should, or food. He is terrified, with every reason because Templeton is not letting up at all. I do not want dopey to get any more terrified of the boys or get to a point of them not being able to be together. They have been like this for a few days, I would think by this point there would be some progress. But now dopey is terrified. the scratches are not horrible still, but the mental of dopey, is worse than any bite Templeton could give him at this point.

I am at the point, i want to split the cage, and only have them with out time together. If Templeton is awake and near them, he is giving them hell. Dopey can get quite a few things from his current choice of sleeping, peeing, and not getting water like he should. I put chocolate soy milk in there for them, he refused to come down that for that. I have yet to see a rat, that did not come running for that. The hairless have no ability to walk freely in this cage right now without fear. I just cannot see that helping the situation.

at this point I dont understand what the boys are giving off that is making Templeton still react bad. One to two brief moments of cuddle, which i am sure is a coincidence, compared to all the battles and fear dopey has now, I am not sure how to make this right by these guys.

 

[hopefloats]

day 18, we are back to the other table, with all of them. I noticed dopey left eye is bulging out, freaked me out. He doesn't seem sick or anything. I am going to be making an appointment for him this week. I am considering having Templeton fixed as well as my dog really soon. I am hoping without his man hood, he would be more willing to accept the others. I can feel that dopeys hips are not as wide as they used to be too, he does not eat in that cage. So this stress is making him loose weight as well.

I read your blog last night I stayed up late going through the posts LOL That is kinda what make me rethink this all.(the part that got me, was you saying "there is steps for a reason and about looking for them to bond a bit LOL) Time isn't the issue for me, in the end having them in one cage happy is my goal, I really want it to be less traumatizing on them all, right now I am worried about dopey, I took the haired rats out, and he drank water for a long time. I know how fast these rats can go downhill from not eating and not having water, that is where my concern lies at now. and he totally pigged out like i have never seen him eat before.

When I seen those about chu, she sounds way to funny. She is totally like my crazy girl pika, and I found out now, like Toby, he is quite fearless and into anything.

Right now all the boys are in one box laying down and dopey is actually sniffing and grooming loki, so that is a major difference from him being terrified for the past few days and not eating. Templeton is not full of i am gonna beat you looks and they look more comfortable today. So it may put me back a step by separating them, but considering how much happier they look today, I think it is what they need. I was totally torn last night on what to do, but I put the ramp to see what dopey would do, it is like he knew he was safe, that is when he came out and drank and was eating again.

Here is my proof, yes that is dopey laying on Templeton, and Templeton letting him, he is also laying on loki under there. Now this is what i have been looking for all week, and it was not happening, so if they can do this more often, i know if Templeton lets them in, Loki will follow suit, he is ok with them, except when templeton is ticked off

 

[jorats]

I feel your frustration, been there done that. But!!!! you have to hold out if you want them all living together. It will take time. Now, I think we need a different approach and that's keeping them locked in their cage for the day, come out for 1 to 2 hours for play only.
Templeton will stay that way until he realizes that the nakie boys live there too. Right now, he doesn't understand that and sees them only as invaders in his home.
Bite to the nose, scratches, nips on the back end, all normal... it's part of rat communication.

 

[hopefloats]

Well their play time is totally going to be on the other table or the couch, because they seem to do a lot better there. It is like less attitude for some reason. Templeton lets them sit right by him.

 

[mamarat]

I remember with mine too it was so hard leaving them in the cage. Sam was always stalking the Wildthings making them scream and run for their lives. And when Sam was resting, his brother Jevy would take over. But the Wildthings waited for the brothers to get old and THEY took over. That was such an experience. I did have Lollipop, a spayed girl, as peacemaker though.

 

[hopefloats]

That is interesting, that I would probably welcome, it is this not showing any growth, and one suffering that is causing me to have problems LOL

 

[hopefloats]

Really? I hope this means he is going to give up his fight soon

 

[jorats]

Awwww.. that's one sweet rat pile. I just remembered the link to the block. http://ratshackforum.com/ratroom/ Look under Daily with Rats.

 

[hopefloats]

Well I stayed up going through your blog last night, I read a lot of it lol... Today, dopey is sleeping in a different spot of the cage actually in a hanging cube, Toby was on the bottom of the cage walking around. I did split them last night before I went to bed, but I undid it this morning. I have not heard one scuffle, one fight, one scream, I hate to say it but dopey is much more relaxed today, maybe he just needed to recoup. Toby ran around and outplayed everyone LOL he was still running after the other went to sleep. He is extremely happy today. As you can tell by the picture, Dopey is sleeping on Templeton, and Toby is sleeping on Loki. I made a new play place for the rats, I am going to bring the boys out in a few to see how they do there. I am hoping since none of them know it, it will go well.

 

[mamarat]

They look like a happy crew!

 

[hopefloats]

Well they loved the play place, all of them are in and out of there. Toby I think is OK with the boys now not one of them has chased him out of here. Loki chased dopey from the play house to my desk, in which they were running so fast, the ramp fell, which saved dopey because Loki fell to the floor. Dopey is still a bit Leary of them, he kinda stands there looking to see if he can get in, Loki did try to steal food from Toby, and to my surprise he didn't get it, usually Toby drops it and freezes. Toby has been in and out and hasn't thought twice about l going in there. It is a major hit with these rats :laugh4: . I don't know why I didn't do this sooner.

Loki and toby are even curled up for sleep!. It almost sucks that I have to move them to put them back in the cage.

Dopey is still scared in the cage, Toby is in a box, eating blocks with Templeton. It is beyond me, they go from fighting like crazy, to now sharing food in a box? LOL wow.

 

[jorats]

It's working out! Also, sometimes you might think they are fighting when they are actually playing. It's hard to really see the difference.

 

[mamarat]

Sometimes a small change can make a whole lot of difference. They're making progress because of the new playpen.

 

[hopefloats]

Toby I think is in, he is one of the honorary haired rats. Dopey, I can tell he still dont want to let down on being alpha. I noticed him obsessively trying to put his head under toby last night, toby would not groom him. He kept trying and trying till toby got annoyed and went with the boys. Dopey is the only rat who has been chased by loki, Loki has been fine with all these rats, but he is getting on dopey, and on occasion the babies. I think the cuteness of the babies wore off, now he is trying to get them in line.

 

[jorats]

Loki must be beta. I can just hear Toby telling Dopey: "quit it bro." "You want to get in trouble?" "NO, I'm not grooming you. We only do that to Templeton." "Get over it, he's the boss." lol