Intros

[jorats]

Keep it familiar ground with toys since they are ok with that.

 

[handmeafish]

Ok, so i'm trying to get the cages clean, and my room is a disaster, so I put them on my bed with one of the cage tops on it... and they are fighting again. They don't look as stressed so i've been letting them work it out so far. Arthur is being all pushy, and puffy... and he pinned Neville for about a minute earlier, and he an Seamus got into it, but Seamus ran away, and up the side of the cage. Things have calmed down for now, it seems like both of the babies have backed down... but Arthur is also displaying some submissive behaviors.. So i'm not sure what exactly to think.

 

[handmeafish]

So by the end of their time together today, they were snuggling, but it kinda looks like Arthur was being forced... he was on the bottom of the pile and very stiff looking.

 

[jorats]

It still counts as a snuggling rat pile.

 

[handmeafish]

yay! that makes me happy. I hope to get them all in the big cage soon.

 

[handmeafish]

Yay! arthur, seamus and neville are all in the big cage together. there have been a few dissagreements, but overall, they are doing very well yay!

 

[jorats]

Excellent!!!

 

[mamarat]

:joy:

 

[violet976]

Ok, I'm back to resume the intro attempts. Bosco & Bug were both neutered on Feb. 28th. To date, Bosco still appears exactly the same inside the cage, huffing/stomping at Bug from the upper level of the FN. Minxie now splits her day among both gentlemen, as I just keep swapping her from the lower/upper level throughout the day. Bosco, Bug & Minx all seem perfectly fine with this. & I actually was feeling a little more confident that I could now pet Bug & then reach in & pet Bosco without getting bit when Bosco smelled the other rat on me.

We were actually planning on finally moving forward & attempting intros in the tub/bathroom again, & in preparation I placed Bosco in Bugs lower level & Bug in Bosco's level. Bosco did his normal huffing/stomping, this time from the lower level looking up at Bug. After letting him get some good time in Bugs cage, I decided to move them back to their usual levels of the FN, & got another hard bite from Bosco. Not as horrendous as the first bite I got, but it did draw blood & when I tried to pick him up again he screeched at me (something he never does). I carefully got him to climb up my arm & pet him before putting him in his usual level of the cage, but I'm concerned that it might still be too soon for intros (since this is my first time dealing with this, I don't really know what to make of everything I observe).

We've been trying to get this poor trio together since Feb. 3rd or so, so any and all advice is most definitely appreciated. :bow:

 

[jorats]

Bosco is a big baby. I'd go for ahead with the intros as planned. Bosco might change his attitude once he's back to "knowing" Bug again.

 

[violet976]

Ok, decided to give it a go, since it's been almost a month since neuters. This time I opted for the travel cage on top of a running dryer (with lots of clanky clothes). I started with two small cages next to one another, & Bosco was noticeably scared but not huffy, so I gave it a go. Things seemed promising, with both rats running around the cage to figure out what was going on. At the beginning stages, Bosco even tried to squeeze under Bug, & even turned himself over halfway. I kept them there for about 15-20 minutes with confidence building, & had a little jar of coins to shake if things looked like they might get heated. Things were going really well, & then both rats assumed full stance & had a rolling fight, which was quickly broken up. I then tried to keep Bosco in that slightly scared state by picking up the cage & walking with it, & also occasionally shaking the coin jar, but after that both rats pretty much hung to their own side of the cage. I gave it another 10 minutes or so, & then put them back in their own cages.

I'm assuming that all still has some promise, & my gut would be to keep doing that same dryer/travel cage intro daily until they get used to one another. Does that sound right, or am I doing anything wrong? Any other advice?

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

I had never thought of doing intros on the dryer. When my intros get difficult I resort to the bathtub with a little water so I'm just curious is there a reason you chose the dryer over the tub?

 

[violet976]

The tub is what we tried before the neuters, & with water, Bug got very sick afterwards. Without water, Bosco tried to kill him. & when I tried to do it on my own, both rats picked an arm & ran up, almost meeting & fighting at my neck.

So... this time I decided I would try placing both small carriers next to each other on the running dryer, to see how Bosco reacted. When I saw he was more scared than huffy, I attempted letting him in Bugs carrier. At that point he was still so scared that he didn't seem to care about Bug, even trying to hide under him. & when things looked iffy, I could simply wiggle the cage or make a loud noise, & they'd stop fighting/looking huffy.

The tub was tough because both rats could easily hop out, & Bosco quickly lost any fear of the bathroom floor/tub. Unless water was in it, he went right into huffing mode, so the dryer was the only place I could think of that might still scare him enough (the motion & the clanking), without having our cats nearby... :lol:

 

[Moon]

Some people have done particularly difficult intros on car rides, also. This only works with someone to drive and rats who aren't used to traveling, LOL

 

[jorats]

Can you do it on a table top instead of putting them in a carrier. When there's a "cage", there's territory.

 

[violet976]

I'll have to think on it, as I don't have anywhere in the house that the cats don't have access to other than my room, & they've marked all over that. The bathroom floor was our last real hope, & Bosco didn't do very well there at all. The cage/dryer was actually the first time I've seen him show any progress at all.

I'll let you know if I come up with anything. :thumbup:

 

[jorats]

Keep in mind that Bosco might have done better due to his neuter and not due to the dryer.
Can't you lock the cats away in a room while you are doing intros? That's what I used to do... I've got cats as well. It's not for a long time so the cats won't be bothered by it.

 

[violet976]

Thanks for the input. I ended up spreading a large rug over the washer/dryer (since it's the only room with a table that I can block off. Our house has an open floor plan & the only tables are in the rooms without doors). So I blocked off the laundry room so the rats couldn't escape, placed the rug on the washer/dryer, fired up the dryer with clanky clothes & placed both rats on top. Worked even better than the cage (like you stated, less room that could be "claimed"). Both rats just ran around trying to figure out how to get down. They ran to one another, sniffed, put heads under one another & followed each other around. After about 10 minutes I thought I saw Bosco begin to puff up when sniffed, so I ended the session before a possible scuffle.

I'm assuming this is good progress, & that eventually we'll get to the level where I can place an open hiding place so they can huddle in there. At what point does one assume they are ready for the hidey? & how long should these meet/greet sessions last (10 min, 30 min?). I'm usually home all day, so I can easily do lots of short sessions, if need be. My plan is to keep trying this method with dryer on, then try it with dryer of, then fully wash the bedding & try it on my bed (less neutral territory).

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

I have always tried to let the sessions last at least 15 minutes because that's when they start to get comfortable with each other and start challenging each other. If things have started to get stressful then I will call it quits after 15 mins and try again later letting the sessions go longer and longer each time. It's hard to say when to add a hidey place (it really comes down to you feeling comfortable adding the hidey), I usually wait to add one until they seem to have established dominance in the open area. Sounds like you have a good plan laid out.

If I'm understanding correctly they both get along with your girl Minxie but she isn't a part of these intros?

 

[jorats]

I always do my intros 30 minutes to an hour. 15 minutes is all about fear and anxiety.
Stopping the session with Bosco puffing up is not a good idea. You showed him that if he becomes a bully, he gets to go home and leave the scary place.
Before you can add a hidey place, do the intro longer and without the dryer on. If they do well for about 4 days, then you add the hidey box.