Intros

[violet976]

***edited to add*** nevermind, I may have addressed my own issue. I started thinking that they do good on the tabletop, but naked girl gets too excited on the bedtop - however, she doesn't seem so excited in the cage alone. So I just bit the bullet, scrubbed the cage and put them both in and so far so good. I used water/vinegar and minimal cage decor and both rats seemed more interested in sniffing the cage than troubling one another.

I've got another intro for you. This one is not as concerning, but I can't quite seem to get these two settled with one another. Minca is my oldest girl. She is young, probably around a year at most, spayed. She lived with Gizmo and Merle, got along well with Merle but never reached good standing with Gizmo. As Gizmo got older/sicker she distanced herself, and any time Minca would get near her Minca would start antagonizing her (poofing/side stepping at her while Gizmo would simply turn away) and a fight would ensue where Minca drew blood each time. Gizmo passed away and Minca did well with Merle. A few weeks later Munster came home from quarantine after surgery. Intros with them went well but were only for a day or two when I thought Munster was recovering, but I lost him just a week later. Three weeks later I brought home a young naked girl from quarantine but also lost Merle unexpected just two days after. So, Minca has technically suffered three losses in under two months, though I'm not sure how much Gizmo & Munster's loss really affected her. Merle definitely did though.

So now I have Minca and my newest, the young naked girl. They did beautifully on the neutral ground intros on my table top, after numerous cage swappings and bedding switches. They do well in the FN separated on different levels, and they do well with familiar hideys on that same neutral ground table top. The trouble begins when I move them to my bed, which is not neutral territory - it is where my rats are always allowed to freerange. I began there with nothing on the bed and they did ok, then added just one hidey they had shared on the table top and they were ok, but once they begin to get comfortable, the little girl is so young/spastic/pouncy that it seems to set Minca off. The young one seems to be the trying for alpha and Minca doesn't seem to mind. The naked girl has repeatedly walked over Minca and thoroughly marked her, and Minca stays calm. But after awhile the little one keeps side stepping up to Minca, nipping at her and pouncing in her space repeatedly, and Minca finally has enough. Trouble is, Minca *will* draw blood if a tussle ensues, and I'm even more fearful of this with a naked rat. Naked girl has taken one smaller bite so far, but she still gets excited and pushes Minca toward that breaking point.

I've since moved them back to the table top with lots of hideys and treats, in the hopes that they can figure this out there first and then do better on the bed, but am I missing anything obvious in this situation or doing something wrong? It almost seems like an issue of just having a very young, happy, spastic rat that is overwhelming the other one, but I'm certainly no expert. & I've never had a young one push another older rat so much, so this is a new one for me. Also, if it matters, naked girl is not fixed yet, but personality she seems young. Not baby young, but still bounces and popcorns everywhere she goes.

I also have an middle aged/older neutered male coming home in a few weeks, and I'd like these two to be more bonded before that intro.

 

[jorats]

***edited to add*** nevermind, I may have addressed my own issue. I started thinking that they do good on the tabletop, but naked girl gets too excited on the bedtop - however, she doesn't seem so excited in the cage alone. So I just bit the bullet, scrubbed the cage and put them both in and so far so good. I used water/vinegar and minimal cage decor and both rats seemed more interested in sniffing the cage than troubling one another.

Right on! How is it working out so far?

 

[violet976]

*really good*, I'm shocked. I watched them closely for awhile, then went back to working in the other room but kept checking on them. No bites that I can see, and naked girl is very easy to spot bites on. Halfway through the day they were both sleeping with one another and later tonight they both came right out together and ate their meal. I guess the bedtop was just holding them back, or making naked girl too excited for Minca. In any case, I'm glad that's over with. Hopefully the "new" older boy will go smoothly in a few weeks and we'll be done for awhile.

 

[jorats]

That's really awesome. That has happened to me too a couple of times where familiar ground just wasn't working out or if the area was too large, so scrub down the cage and let them work it out.
I'm so glad they are together! With this intro being any indication, I bet it will be equally as good with the neutered boy.

 

[violet976]

I saw that in your videos Jo. I actually watched all of them beforehand and was glad to have certain things pointed out that I didn't know (like watching who is eating as they probably wont be the issues for that moment). Your videos really helped me out. & I did see the point in the middle of the videos where you simply mentioned that semi-familiar ground just hadn't worked that time and you pushed intros to familiar ground. It's really great that others can watch you go through an intro that most of us wouldn't dream of tackling. I actually use those now to show anyone helping me what to expect, when to cut in and block with their hand, and what they might see if a tackle breaks out.

 

[jorats]

I saw that in your videos Jo. I actually watched all of them beforehand and was glad to have certain things pointed out that I didn't know (like watching who is eating as they probably wont be the issues for that moment). Your videos really helped me out. & I did see the point in the middle of the videos where you simply mentioned that semi-familiar ground just hadn't worked that time and you pushed intros to familiar ground. It's really great that others can watch you go through an intro that most of us wouldn't dream of tackling. I actually use those now to show anyone helping me what to expect, when to cut in and block with their hand, and what they might see if a tackle breaks out.

That's awesome. I'm so glad the videos are helpful!! This makes me really happy.

 

[amanda1472]

Okay so my Thumper has been alone for about 3 weeks now. And if I where to wait for the babies to be 2 months, he will be alone for more 5 weeks. Is there anyway to intro babies to an adult before two months? Or is that not safe at all?

I dont know if you remember Jorats, but Thumper was my calmest in the intro of Bambi & Thumper to Teddy. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30567

I'm just trying to see when I should start Intros of him to my new 3 boys.

 

[jorats]

You could try at 6 weeks. I used to always do that at 6 weeks until there was a freak accident and I became paranoid and very cautious. But you will be right there on them and there's just the one adult, I'd say try it.

 

[amanda1472]

Thank you, I think I will, poor Thumper will finally have friends.
EDIT: BTW they will be 6 weeks this sat.

 

[jorats]

Thank you, I think I will, poor Thumper will finally have friends.
EDIT: BTW they will be 6 weeks this sat.

Perfect!

 

[marissaceleste]

So I've been working on introducing my 3 adult males to my 3 baby males (around 10 weeks now). I had them in separate cages side by side for about a week, then I've been doing table top intros every night for the past week, for 1 to 2 hours a night. Everything was going very well, there were no scuffles, a bit of dominance behaviour but nothing major and usually by the end of it, all 6 would be huddled up together snoozing under a blanket. So I was very hopeful that things would go smoothly.

I've since moved everyone into my DCN, I have the babies in one section and the adults in another with the divider up so that they can't have physical contact while I'm not monitoring them. I scrubbed the cage out from top to bottom to remove the original boy's scents and then I rearranged it so it seems like a 'new' place for everyone. This evening, I removed the divider so they could interact in the cage. Everything was fine at first, they were more preoccupied with exploring and a bit of butt sniffing. After about 10 minutes, things started to get a bit tense.

One of my adults Ollie got a little puffed up and was trying to dominate all 3 babies, but they tried to resist him and even started trying to dominate him back. Since Ollie seemed to be the most upset, I removed him from the cage to sit with me for a few minutes to calm down and get some scratches. The remaining 5 seemed a bit less tense while he was gone, going back to exploring the cage.

I returned Ollie to the cage and at first he was ok, but then Murphy, one of the babies, started to get a little puffed up. There was quite a bit of chasing and squeaking, flipping and a couple side kicks as well. Pretty much all of them got involved except poor little Edgar (baby) who went and hid after his first scuffle with Ollie and Finn (adult), who just seemed pretty chill about the whole thing.

I figured that was enough for one day, so I separated the groups out again, and everyone calmed down within a couple minutes. There wasn't any major aggression I don't think, and no one was actually injured. None of the scuffled looked serious enough, but I checked everyone over once they settled and everyone is perfectly fine. I've read that these sorts of interactions are to be expected to a degree and to just let it happen so long as no one starts drawing blood.

So, I'm not sure if I'm being over protective since this is my first introduction ever and if I should just continue to let them work out their differences and watch out for anymore escalation, or do you think I maybe moved too fast and should go back to more neutral territory intros. I was just a bit shocked by it all since the neutral territory intros went SO well. There were essentially no issues and they were all grooming each other in a friendly manner and snuggled up together...

Oh, my boys... can't we all just get along and not cause mummy's hair to fall out? :scolding:

 

[jorats]

At this point, pick a day that you will be home all day to watch them, open up the divider and let them move in and become a colony. Be ready to pull someone out if you see some serious bullying going on. Otherwise, let them work it out. After are a full day of exploring, meeting up, settling their differences, things should be good and they should remain together in one big cage.

 

[marissaceleste]

Thanks for the advice. I will give this a try sometime in the next few days and see how it goes. Hopefully they can figure out how to coexist peacefully

 

[jorats]

Good luck!

 

[marissaceleste]

So I woke up early this morning, cleaned out the cage and removed the divider. At first, I took Ollie who was the most upset of the adults and put him in the top half with the babies.. He and Murphy were sorting out their dominance issues for a bit and then I let everyone mingle together. There were a few minor scuffles near the beginning.. Everyone is sleeping now in various locations around the cage and they seem pretty peaceful. I left the rat room for a bit to make lunch and have a shower and I came back to this scene: Ollie and baby Byron snuggled up together! Little Byron in the back is making the funniest face haha. Hopefully everything settles into place over the next few days

 

[jorats]

Awww, cuddling is a good sign.