Strange symptoms one week after mammary tumour removal?

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selene

Guest
Hi everyone.

So one of my girls Parsley had a mammary tumour removed by my experienced exotics vet just over a week ago, and other than a little bit of an infection that seems to have cleared up with antibiotics, and a fluid sack under the skin which has now gone, she has been doing well.

However, today, she is exhibiting some weird behaviour. She is swaying as she walks and seems unsteady, and has slipped over a few times whilst I've been watching her.

I've had her in a separate hospital cage since the operation because I tried to put her back in with her cage mate who promptly pulled some of her stitches out so I had to remove her again. Since she is healing well and her stitches are no longer visible, I put her back in for the day today and she spent most of the day curled up with her cage mate sleeping, but was in more awkward positions than she normally is and was staggering and falling a little in the cage.

I've separated her again overnight because I'm worried she will fall as their cage is quite tall and has lots of hammocks in it.

I have thought this might be symptoms of a Pituitary Tumour, as my last girl who had a mammary tumour removed ended up passing away from a PT a month or so after her surgery. However, unlike her, Parsley can still hold food in her paws normally. She is just swaying and I have noticed her PICAing the towelling that she is on this evening. I've given her 0.1mg of Meloxidyl which she had been on after her surgery because I'm worried about her being in pain, but couldn't remember the dosage so didn't want to overdose.

I think visibly she might have lost some weight as well since the surgery but she won't stay on my scales to check.

I'm going to take her into my vet's drop in tomorrow morning if she doesn't get any better overnight, but wondering if anyone has seen something similar?
 
Can you get us a video? The timing is suspicious of PT and the first thing I thought of. With an older rat, the anesthesia can sometimes kick a latent pituitary tumour into high gear :(
I've never had much luck treating these either. :/
 

Video

  • selene

I'm not sure if you can see the video - it wouldn't upload from my phone so I had to try a work around.

The vet didn't think it was neurological, but I do still have a suspicion it is early signs of PT :( I agree that the timing seems like PT. The vet said since she can hold food and she passes the wheelbarrow test at the moment and seems to favour left side whilst swaying but can also go to the right that she doesn't think it's neurological though. Strange.

She's on 0.2 meloxidyl daily now in case it is pain related (due to PICA), but also got given some critical care from the vets to try to perk her up and keep some weight on. My normal rat specialist vet isn't in on the weekends so I will take her to see her if she declines or has any other symptoms of PT so we can start steroids etc like with my last girl.

Will be so sad to lose another to PT straight after a mammary surgery :( it sucks to try to buy them more time and then have it blow up like this. She's only about 1.5 years old so she's not too old - but I did rescue her but originally she was bred for a pet shop so I suspect her genetics are not so good :(

Poor thing!
 

Video_1 (1)

  • selene

here's another video as the last one seems to have worked!
 
The vet didn’t suggest trying antibiotics just in case? Judging by how fast she’s moving and the head tilt, it could also very easily be an inner ear infection. You can’t go wrong treating with antibiotics at this point, so I would talk to the vet about it or use what you have if you have any on hand.
 
No they didn't, but it wasn't my normal vet and I don't think this one was as experienced with ratties. She is tilting her head quite strongly to the left this evening and does seem to wobble to this side as well...I have some old karidox oral solution 100mg/ml but I don't have very much, but I can try to ring the vets tomorrow and see if my normal vet will get me some to try!
 
If you could get some tomorrow, that would be best. You want to start them on a combination of antibiotics such as Baytril and amoxicillin as soon as possible if it is an ear infection because they get worse very quickly.
 
Luna&Ralph said:
If you could get some tomorrow, that would be best. You want to start them on a combination of antibiotics such as Baytril and amoxicillin as soon as possible if it is an ear infection because they get worse very quickly.
Click to expand...

will do, thank you so much!
 
so my vet has refused to dispense anything because she wasn't the one who saw Parsley, but she is also completely booked up until thursday. I asked if the vet who saw her yesterday could dispense anything but she's off sick today so they're going to leave a note for her to call me tomorrow. to be honest this really annoys me. I understand that my normal vet hasn't seen her but someone saw her yesterday and the notes are on their system. And the amount I have to pay just to get seen is ludicrous enough but if there isn't a way to see a vet until thursday then there's nothing I can do.

they are dispensing antibiotics for another of my girls who has a resp infection at the moment - the only thing I can think to do is to use those on parsley too, but I don't know what they're dispensing until I go collect them in a few hours.

Parsley is scratching her ears a lot today and still has the heavy head tilt to the left. she seems happy to run about and eat snacks etc but is obviously in some discomfort and is still staggering about the place :(
 
lilspaz68 said:
After seeing that video I have to agree it looks like inner ear infection NOT pituitary tumor so a combo of antibiotics will definitely be needed for 3-4 weeks.
Click to expand...

that's good news, as I was really worried about a PT, so fingers crossed! realistically, if her symptoms started on saturday evening, how long is she going to be able to hold on for? as I said above, my vet refused to dispense anything without seeing her and the earliest I'm going to be able to get anything is tomorrow (tuesday) according to the receptionist...
 
I managed to get her an appointment at one of the other branches. The vet there has given her baytril again. My specialist vet is back on thursday so I will take her back in at the end of the week to see her as he's only given me enough for a few days... I'm hoping she will be okay on just baytril until thursday/friday? they didn't have any other antibiotics in stock at that branch because it is small and he only wanted to give me baytril anyway...
 
An inner ear infection is usually a secondary infection, and amoxicillin is a really good antibiotic to use for those. Baytril is a good antibiotic to start with and it could possibly work on its own if the infection is mild enough. Try to get another antibiotic to use in combination with it as soon as possible, especially if the Baytril isn't working on its own, but Baytril alone is much better than nothing.

I'm not sure what kind of products pet stores that you have around you carry, but it might be worth it to do an online or physical search for antibiotics such as amoxicillin, usually labelled for fish, or doxycycline, usually labelled for birds, if your vet refuses to see you sooner.
 
Luna&Ralph said:
An inner ear infection is usually a secondary infection, and amoxicillin is a really good antibiotic to use for those. Baytril is a good antibiotic to start with and it could possibly work on its own if the infection is mild enough. Try to get another antibiotic to use in combination with it as soon as possible, especially if the Baytril isn't working on its own, but Baytril alone is much better than nothing.

I'm not sure what kind of products pet stores that you have around you carry, but it might be worth it to do an online or physical search for antibiotics such as amoxicillin, usually labelled for fish, or doxycycline, usually labelled for birds, if your vet refuses to see you sooner.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all the help!

I've started her back on the baytril just now. The frustrating this about this is none of the other vets at the branches are rat experts so I don't think they're aware of these issues - the vet was confused about how she could have an infection when she was on baytril last week for her wound. But like you say, if it's a secondary infection which started on saturday and she came off the baytril on thursday then that seems to make sense...

Unfortunately since I'm in the UK I don't think I can get antibiotics anywhere over the counter. I do have some fresh karidox (active antibiotic doxycycine according to google) that my vet has given me for one of my other girls, which I could start her on if she doesn't seem to be improving from the baytril before thursday? I'm sure my vet would be none too happy about me doing so but I don't care if she needs it!

She's still on meloxidyl as well and she seems a lot perkier today, and she's put on the weight again because I've been giving her lots of critical care and baby porridge today thank goodness!
 
I would try the karidox. If you do manage to get amoxicillin later, all three of these can be used together so that's a good one to try.

I have had a lot of experience with vets not caring about something that is an emergency for rats but might not be for another animal, so I feel for you. Your situation sounds really frustrating but you're doing everything you can.

I figured you probably wouldn't be able to find any over the counter antibiotics, but it's always worth a suggestion. Canada is the same, we can't just get antibiotics at a pet store but I think you can in the US. That's where I order mine from, anyway. It's pretty expensive but is cheaper than going to the vet all the time and is great if you have an emergency.
 
Luna&Ralph said:
I would try the karidox. If you do manage to get amoxicillin later, all three of these can be used together so that's a good one to try.

I have had a lot of experience with vets not caring about something that is an emergency for rats but might not be for another animal, so I feel for you. Your situation sounds really frustrating but you're doing everything you can.

I figured you probably wouldn't be able to find any over the counter antibiotics, but it's always worth a suggestion. Canada is the same, we can't just get antibiotics at a pet store but I think you can in the US. That's where I order mine from, anyway. It's pretty expensive but is cheaper than going to the vet all the time and is great if you have an emergency.
Click to expand...
lilspaz68 said:
After seeing that video I have to agree it looks like inner ear infection NOT pituitary tumor so a combo of antibiotics will definitely be needed for 3-4 weeks.
Click to expand...

Thank you both so much for your help! She's on some antibiotics from the vet now and is doing much better, a lot chirpier and running about the place again already! :) I have a feeling she's going to have a head tilt forever maybe because she still has it now but we shall see! She's a trooper! Thanks again :)
 
Oh I'm so happy to hear this! Head tilts usually do end up being permanent, unfortunately. The good part is that rats adapt super quickly so it shouldn't bother her for long.
 
Glad that she is feeling better

an anti inflammatory is usually given along with antibiotics for a couple of weeks - to help reduce and prevent permanent damage

I have found that my rats have needed antibiotics for at least 6 weeks for an inner ear infection - some have required antibiotics for months
Here is some info that may be helpful http://ratguide.com/health/auricle_ear/otitis_media_otitis_interna_labyrinthitis.php
 
SQ said:
Glad that she is feeling better

an anti inflammatory is usually given along with antibiotics for a couple of weeks - to help reduce and prevent permanent damage

I have found that my rats have needed antibiotics for at least 6 weeks for an inner ear infection - some have required antibiotics for months
Here is some info that may be helpful http://ratguide.com/health/auricle_ear/otitis_media_otitis_interna_labyrinthitis.php
Click to expand...
She’s on meloxidyl as well and has been since I noticed symptoms as I have a good supply of this at home :)

Thank you for the link! :)
 

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