Sooo Let's Get it ALL out in the Open Shall We? - Poss. SV

[Cityratt]

As for rescues getting a free pass on not QTing... I just will have to disagree there. However, if you do not QT you should be prepared to take care of the possible reprecussions of that. As far as I know those who do not QT are prepared to do so.

Oh i didnt mean to imply that - I dont think it should just be thrown to the wind. But I think the best effort to have the best possible QT protocol established is a realistic situation, and really at this point proper QT protocols may not be available but i think its important to keep it in perspective. And respect the importance of QT and work towards implementing these protocols - just like how Lynds said she's working Towards the goal but what of the rats in the meantime?

 

[Nickelrat]

Shelagh is going through the nightmare that most rescues fear. I am sure that she is feeling despair and fear for her babies. Not only that she must be blaming herself as well. I think we all know that qt is a must but most of the time it's just not possible. That would mean more rats would lose the chance or be denied of getting rescued. There's just so many of them. I think right now, Shelagh needs our love and support not our criticism. Therefore it's understandable that she gets easily hurt by members worried thoughts.

 

[ryelle]

but I really don't know why its soo concerning to so many members? Its not even near them?

:roll:
thats not a very fair thing to say

 

[lilangel]

Shelagh is going through the nightmare that most rescues fear. I am sure that she is feeling despair and fear for her babies. Not only that she must be blaming herself as well. I think we all know that qt is a must but most of the time it's just not possible. That would mean more rats would lose the chance or be denied of getting rescued. There's just so many of them. I think right now, Shelagh needs our love and support not our criticism. Therefore it's understandable that she gets easily hurt by members worried thoughts.

:thumbup: :nod:

 

[lilspaz68]

But it won't affect your own rats and you are acting like it will. Almost like its a personal thing.

 

[Cait]

It's unlikely it is something else but you don't know. Until you get the serology (is that the right word?? *Edit* THANKS ANNE! LMAO) you don't know with 100% certainty.

When I asked you directly twice about who else was going to be affected neither time did you say that those rats were at Chelle's. I found that out through the proverbial grapevine and went to Chelle about that information. She also did not say anything about those rats being there just the day before, after you had tracked it back to whatever rats it came from. Again I asked directly. Today it is public knowledge.

As it stands that doesn't really matter now. I was put off by that, and that's all there really is to it. It's out so like I said, it doesn't matter now. And I'm probably the only one concerned with that aspect.

All I had is out there. Those were my concerns. They've been voiced and whether or not people see the validity of my concerns is up to them.

As for why it concerns other people who are not in Toronto. I can only answer for myself. For one, I know that Eagle is supposed to be getting boys from Zooy. Their transport was supposed to be Chelle. I believe those plans have gone different directions, whether because of this or other things I am not aware. Eagle is in my area, and I visit her. For two, for the Fest I am supposed to be bringing UP rats, to be distributed to people up there. Shelagh I believe you yourself are supposed to take a girl? I could be wrong on that. I understand that by August this may have been passed through and be done and over with. But there is where my concern stemmed from.

 

[LA]

Shelagh is going through the nightmare that most rescues fear. I am sure that she is feeling despair and fear for her babies. Not only that she must be blaming herself as well. I think we all know that qt is a must but most of the time it's just not possible. That would mean more rats would lose the chance or be denied of getting rescued. There's just so many of them. I think right now, Shelagh needs our love and support not our criticism. Therefore it's understandable that she gets easily hurt by members worried thoughts.

:thumbup: :nod:

:thumbup: Me too

 

[lilspaz68]

The virus sheds for 2 weeks, after that each rat is not contagious anymore and is immune.
This will probably all be done with in another couple of weeks...all my rats have been exposed, most have some type of symptoms. Now its the big grind of medicating twice a day, and nursing more complicated cases (only have afew). Dr Munn returns on March 16th, I will be calling to make an appointment as soon as possible. I may need to drop off rats in teh morning, pay the hospitalization fees (by then they won't be contagious) and make a late appt. so we can discuss everything that has gone on, and what we need to do next. We had briefly discussed testing when we thought that Brie had SDA (it wasn't).

I have the number of a vet in Michigan who will likely walk me through it all beforehand.

By August this will be a bad memory, unless there is CAR Bacillus here as well, then i will have to let all my rats die off.

Sadly a lot of my rats will have lesions and scarred lungs and may have issues for the remainder of their lives...

The decision not to tell people which rats it possibly came from, was mine. Not Chelle's. I had this idea that people would hate the babies if they knew. We were doing all these things behind the scenes, research, etc., and we discussed timelines, etc of when the babies were there. We are not sure why none of her rats weren't affected in the least, so for all we know if wasn't those babies at all...and we still have no clue who patient zero is. And there's no way of knowing or finding out either.

 

[Cait]

I honestly can't see any one blaming the rats who brought it in. But I can see that line of thinking.

There's just too many unknowns... We only have suspicions.

I hope in all this you don't think I DON'T support and care about you and what is going on. The absolute opposite. It is heartbreaking. I am sorry this is happening to you. Because I CARE I worry, and have these concerns. If I didn't care I would have just said "Oh. Weird." and moved on. I hope you understand that and there isn't any animosity. I feel none and haven't since this started. Just concern.

 

[jorats]

I just want to say that I'm so very sorry that so many people are feeling hurt over this. Emotions are raw, everyone is concerned.
Lots of what ifs and buts and told you so... but in the end, lets all have a huge group hug.

I love you guys!!!

 

[Dahlas]

:grouphug:

 

[lilspaz68]

I honestly can't see any one blaming the rats who brought it in. But I can see that line of thinking.

There's just too many unknowns... We only have suspicions.

I hope in all this you don't think I DON'T support and care about you and what is going on. The absolute opposite. It is heartbreaking. I am sorry this is happening to you. Because I CARE I worry, and have these concerns. If I didn't care I would have just said "Oh. Weird." and moved on. I hope you understand that and there isn't any animosity. I feel none and haven't since this started. Just concern.

I don't think that Cait. I would never think that. :heart:

 

[Zooy]

Big Hugs to everyone!

 

[Rachael]

Shelagh needs our love and support not our criticism. Therefore it's understandable that she gets easily hurt by members worried thoughts.

No offense but I did not say a thing until this thread was posted and I believe the same for other members too.
So it's not fair to blame anybody that posted here when the thread was posted by Shelagh and left open for people to give their thoughts and opinions.

But it won't affect your own rats and you are acting like it will. Almost like its a personal thing.

I have to disagree, sorry. I know it won't affect 'our' rats, but is it wrong for us to be worried about other peoples rats?

 

[Cait]

I just wanted to say that we're so cool.

 

[Rachael]

I just want to say that I'm so very sorry that so many people are feeling hurt over this. Emotions are raw, everyone is concerned.

And I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone. I think I'm quite prone to coming across the wrong way... don't quote me on this haha.

 

[Cityratt]

Shelagh needs our love and support not our criticism. Therefore it's understandable that she gets easily hurt by members worried thoughts.

No offense but I did not say a thing until this thread was posted and I believe the same for other members too.
So it's not fair to blame anybody that posted here when the thread was posted by Shelagh and left open for people to give their thoughts and opinions.

Nowhere does Nic lay blame Ratloveandcute - she essentially said what Jo stated also - emotions are raw, its a scary and upsetting situation for all.

It's not hard to imagine that in similar circumstances, you would potentially be sensitive to peoples concerns, especially if they may have a "tone" associated with them (which i am not implying that ANYONE is talking with a "tone" but in text this is VERY hard to discern). Shelagh is very worried about the health and well being of her rat family. And I think its fair to say (sorry if im shoving words in your mouth Nic but I'm sayin' em now too!) that Nic was just trying to shift the focus off of the "blame game" and onto more important, constructive, matters.

 

[trillium]

Whew. This has been a difficult read even though I'm not directly involved. I've been following the threads to keep myself up to date on what's up, and I'm glad things are clearer now. It sounds like there's been a lot of emotional strain on everyone, all because of the deep love we have for the rats who run our lives. In a way, I guess that's the amazing thing that this thread shows. How much everyone cherishes their rats and wants to keep them safe and healthy!! :heart: :heart:

I'm just sorry it has taken so much extra effort and energy on the part of those involved to keep things clear. Maybe this thread could just stay open as a Q and A thread as things develop to update on news. I'm guessing if this does turn out to be Sendai, maybe over the long term a tracking/information thread might be opened anyways to update on any outbreaks.

I have been appreciating any updated information about the illness and its spread since us Ontarians had been feeling incredibly lucky to not have had these terrible illnesses circulating in the area. I wonder if that could explain part of why there's been such a strong reaction too -- lack of depth of knowledge about the situation, and a concern that because of lack of experience, some people might not be really ready to cope with it.

It's really sad to think that there may be more outbreaks of this type in the future if Sendai is really getting a foothold in the province. Ugh. But one step at a time, and I hope at this point that the rescues can turn their attention back to the far more important enormous task of keeping their babies alive without feeling like they have to defend every action they take. For me, it also comes down to logic, reality, and trust in the diligence of those involved. I tend to trust that the people involved here adore ratties and are thoroughly enough educated about their care that they wouldn't ever allow any possibility of illness to spread to other ratties. That's just my perspective... Reality, as people have noted several times before, does not always allow for perfection in timing and execution. People need to take care and support each other through such awful things, so I'm very relieved that the divergent strings of thoughts and issues are coming back to weave together again to form the strong, braided rope that holds this community together. It's always been what I found special about this forum.

 

[Alicemcmallis]

Maybe you should find another vet who can do bloodwork on rats and get the titer levels tested in the rat(s) that have just come down with the illness to figure out if there's an active Sendai infection?

Waiting for Dr. Munn to get back and testing for the antibodies in 2-3 weeks will only show if the one rat you're testing has ever been exposed to the virus, which is entirely possible, but doesn't necessarily mean that's the issue at hand with everyone. Until you've got a definitive test result, no one really knows why the rats are sick.

I have to take issue with the lack of quarantine comments. Just because almost no one can do a full anti-viral (e.g. Sendai, SDA) totally different airspace quarantine, doesn't mean that quarantine procedures for any incoming rats should go out the window.

As Jorats mentioned, quarantine is done for a number of other things such as parasites and bacterial infections. A quarantine in a separate room with washing hands and changing clothes between handling and other hygienic procedures is generally sufficient in preventing transmission of these more common issues.

I don't want people to get the idea that just because one can't keep rats in another house for 3 weeks it means that one shouldn't bother doing everything one can to quarantine.

And just because a person runs a rescue and has a large quantity of animals in their homes, doesn't give them an excuse to not quarantine. It leaves all their personal pets, all their charges and all their adopters' pets open to illness and even death. A person can get away with little to no quarantine measures for only so long before something tragic happens.

 

[BuddhaBelly]

As new member on this forum, without knowing anyone's history, it does look to me like many of the harsh words came solely out of concern, worry and fear... you guys are a GREAT group of people, and I am learning so much from you all! And you seem pretty tight knit, so I know it must be easy to get swept up in the heat of the moment. I hope everything is looking up with your crew Shelagh - fingers crossed that this passes soon! :heart: