Sooo Let's Get it ALL out in the Open Shall We? - Poss. SV

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henry's_mum said:
It NEVER ceases to amaze me that people can befriend a person, then go behinde their backs and whisper things about them

I know it may seem unloyal but it can be hard to tell your friend what you really think without upsetting them, but at the same time you may not be happy with how they are going about things. It is better perhaps to just tell them you're not very happy with what they are doing but telling people certain things without completely offending them can be hard. I do admit when I read that people were visiting I was going to post that perhaps it wasn't a good idea, but it would just have caused an arguement.
 
It amazes me that people feel if Shelagh has a visitor into her HOME is anyone's business but hers. Come on people......this is Shelagh we are talking about. Most of us have learned a lot of what we know about rat care FROM her.......Do you really think she would do anything to jeopardize anyone?
She is a rescue.....but is also a person and she is entitled to company. Steps where taken to prevent the spread of anything.....that is all anyone has the right to ask.....
You don't know when you go to the mall and grab a door knob who touched that door knob before you....it could very well have been someone who came from a petstore and handled a shipment of sick rats.....come on. Lets not over react here....
Shelagh and Chelle have both closed their rescues, no one in or out......quarantine methods are being practiced (very good ones I might add) anything above that is not our business.....
I know I trust Shelagh 110%.....she is doing everything right.
 
If I had a car and a good back (bad back courtesy of a very nasty ex-bf), I wouldn't have needed anyone to visit, but sadly I don't. Chelle brought bedding, litter (all heavy), food for me so I could just stay home and nurse, stuff to clean cages with, insulin syringes I desperately needed, etc, and all the donated items from people too. I am good for a few weeks now...

it's best to PM or ask questions than offend someone by talking behind their back, its the adult way to do things. :thumbup:
 
lilspaz68 said:
If I had a car and a good back (bad back courtesy of a very nasty ex-bf), I wouldn't have needed anyone to visit, but sadly I don't. Chelle brought bedding, litter (all heavy), food for me so I could just stay home and nurse, stuff to clean cages with, insulin syringes I desperately needed, etc, and all the donated items from people too. I am good for a few weeks now...

it's best to PM or ask questions than offend someone by talking behind their back, its the adult way to do things. :thumbup:

I don't know who that's aimed at, but how have people been talking about you behind your back if you know what people have been saying? I have not been talking about you behind your back and I don't think many people would have been, but it's not really talking about you, it is not childish to discuss a situation. Of course people are going to want to talk about the situationm, a virus like this is something that other members will discuss.

And like I said it's not always trying to offend people by talking behind their backs, but that it's harder to say it someones face. Sometimes there is not anything to "ask", but people won't want to PM you to say "I'm not happy about the way you're doing..." as I said I don't think visitors was a great idea at a time like this because as far as I have read living off host for 3 hours isn't always compeltely accurate.
 
Discussing this scary situation is perfectly normal, in fact, it's good to discuss it, we all need to learn from it.
I think there were some hurtful things said and it came back to others.
It's best to have it out in the open and talk about it fully. :thumbup:
 
Ewa said:
I am guilty of skipping one QT time .... :oops: it was just once! But even once can take out your whole colony. At the time though , I didn't have the space to do a proper QT... luckily everything turned out fine but c'mon people , I would like the one person who hasnt made a mistake with there rats to speak up! :nod:

Like the good book says Let those with out sin cast the first stone!

We are human, we care and we will screw up.. to make a big deal is crazy.. She is working her butt off and has help from friends so whats the issue...
 
Appropriate precautions have been taken and the situation is being handled in the best way possible.
We have all been taking calculated risks when bringing in new rats.
As Shelagh stated,
lilspaz68 said:
This is scary stuff, it will change ratowning in Ontario forever! We are going to have to QT now, whereas we never really had to before in ONTARIO. Note that there are some places in Canada that had to be more aware (for eg, BC) as the ratmills that supply them are across the border where SDAV, SV, etc are pravalent.
Hopefully this
will change ratowning
in the maritime provinces as well. (We are near the US boarder and there has been at least one confirmed case of SDA in NB, although not recently.) But that is a topic for the future.
 
I'm going to be straight up and say I had some major concerns. Concerns which I shared with the entire mod section and Chelle herself. I am sure she spoke with you Shelagh and helped prompt this post. I also spoke with another person who was also WORRIED about the safety of the situation. How that can be construed as "behind your back" I can see vaguely but at the same time you weren't very forthcoming with all the information even when asked directly.

Not all the facts were given. People need to know this stuff. We can't track and follow everything like you can. We don't know off the top of our heads that the rats you suspect brought this in were at Chelle's place at one point in time before they went to you. That wasn't said until this post actually. That was my personal bugaboo about the whole thing. And it's already been rectified. Even now that it is ALL out there I doubt you will have stopped people from discussing it... It is scary and people are worried and frightened, for you, your rats, and for the general rat population. All of this "talk" is out of concern and not malice. I would hope that you guys could see that.

Saying that, I agree that because Chelle has been totally symptom and death free since they came that it is basically a non-issue and think that her going under QT is a good thing just to be safe. I'm also going to own up to being concerned about Chelle and Amanda visiting. Even with all you guys are doing, things happen. I personally would not risk it. I told Chelle that. I personally would not risk it. That says nothing of what YOU guys are doing and treating the situation it says what *I* would do. Saying that, if it isn't Sendai, if it's something else, how do you know your method is completely effective? No one knows WHAT it is, only suspicions. I am overly paranoid of course, and that there is my paranoia showing. No one likes to be a shut in, and during this time it is important for people to reach out and all that. But... at what risk ultimately?

I hate that I and others feel like we are in the wrong for being concerned, enough to where we don't want to say anything. Well I'm doing it. This is exactly where I'm coming from on this situation which I am sure was known by both Shelagh and Chelle and pretty much everyone else.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm not trying to be a b*tch, I am not trying to make anyone feel like they aren't responsible or able or any of that crap. I am not judging. But there is ME getting it all out in the open.
 
I would hope Cait, that everyone can see how warranted your concerns are (I do) - but I guess there are two main differences between us and Shel/Chelle

We're not rescues - so we can choose to do proper QT, and choose not to expose our pets to illnesses, but If the rescues can't choose to forgo proper QT procedures, and make due with less than ideal (different room, no face to face contact with other rats, no sharing of, change of clothing etc between rat rooms etc) then what would happen to the rats needing rescuing? Ideally we would have enough axillary foster homes to have proper QT happen but unfortunately that is not the present situation.

Also, what would have happened had Chelle and Amanda not made the trip? Shelagh had already stated shes got some limitations (not to mention being worried sick, and run off her feet) what would have happened to her in terms of resources etc?

I think everyone entered into this visitation with a firm knowledge of the risks, but also an understanding of the necessity and lack of a better way (and you must admit ALOT of precautions were taken - which is better than most would have thought to do). Also - I would venture a guess that Chelle would say "it's what a good friend will do" - but again thats just ME throwing that out there.
 
Cait said:
I'm going to be straight up and say I had some major concerns. Concerns which I shared with the entire mod section and Chelle herself. I am sure she spoke with you Shelagh and helped prompt this post. I also spoke with another person who was also WORRIED about the safety of the situation. How that can be construed as "behind your back" I can see vaguely but at the same time you weren't very forthcoming with all the information even when asked directly.

Not all the facts were given. People need to know this stuff. We can't track and follow everything like you can. We don't know off the top of our heads that the rats you suspect brought this in were at Chelle's place at one point in time before they went to you. That wasn't said until this post actually. That was my personal bugaboo about the whole thing. And it's already been rectified. Even now that it is ALL out there I doubt you will have stopped people from discussing it... It is scary and people are worried and frightened, for you, your rats, and for the general rat population. All of this "talk" is out of concern and not malice. I would hope that you guys could see that.

Saying that, I agree that because Chelle has been totally symptom and death free since they came that it is basically a non-issue and think that her going under QT is a good thing just to be safe. I'm also going to own up to being concerned about Chelle and Amanda visiting. Even with all you guys are doing, things happen. I personally would not risk it. I told Chelle that. I personally would not risk it. That says nothing of what YOU guys are doing and treating the situation it says what *I* would do. Saying that, if it isn't Sendai, if it's something else, how do you know your method is completely effective? No one knows WHAT it is, only suspicions. I am overly paranoid of course, and that there is my paranoia showing. No one likes to be a shut in, and during this time it is important for people to reach out and all that. But... at what risk ultimately?

I hate that I and others feel like we are in the wrong for being concerned, enough to where we don't want to say anything. Well I'm doing it. This is exactly where I'm coming from on this situation which I am sure was known by both Shelagh and Chelle and pretty much everyone else.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm not trying to be a b*tch, I am not trying to make anyone feel like they aren't responsible or able or any of that crap. I am not judging. But there is ME getting it all out in the open.

I agree with pretty much everything here Cait.
I know people that have been through the same situation and the last thing on their mind at been a visit.
I know it seems nice and supportive, but is it really worth risking a whole load of rats' lifes just to get some support? It may sound really bad but I'd say that no, it is not. If I ever do have this situation and I'm bound to at some point along the line I know the last thing I'm going to do is have people coming around to my house and especially handling my rats and so on. It's a massive risk and not worth it in my opinion.

I didn't want to post before as it seemed like I'd just be ignored.
I did say in chat before about being careful or something along those lines and no offense but I felt that the reaction was a little abrupt. I know you are respected here and have helped a lot of people but I feel as though there are certain members here that would be treated differently if in this situation.... I don't know how to word it, but I just think some members (not aiming this at you Shelagh, this is in general) get "special treatment"... it's fine to respect people but it's more than that.

And also there is not anything wrong with discussing a situation behind your back. I know members involved have spoken about me behind my back and have lied to me and told other people things I didn't chose to tell them too, so it's a bit one sided.

Sorry if I sound horrible and mean on this. Not meaning to.
 
Delivering supplies and going out to lunch is one thing to me... Going in and handling all of the rats and such is another.

YES there are proper precautions being taken. Some would say above and beyond. I'm saying WHAT IF it's not enough? You can't know for sure. It might not even BE Sendai. It could be something else. Again, I personally would not risk it. That is just me. What they do is their business, but they asked for getting it all out there and that's what I had.

As for rescues getting a free pass on not QTing... I just will have to disagree there. However, if you do not QT you should be prepared to take care of the possible reprecussions of that. As far as I know those who do not QT are prepared to do so.
 
Cityratt said:
I would hope Cait, that everyone can see how warranted your concerns are (I do) - but I guess there are two main differences between us and Shel/Chelle

We're not rescues - so we can choose to do proper QT, and choose not to expose our pets to illnesses, but If the rescues can't choose to forgo proper QT procedures, and make due with less than ideal (different room, no face to face contact with other rats, no sharing of, change of clothing etc between rat rooms etc) then what would happen to the rats needing rescuing? Ideally we would have enough axillary foster homes to have proper QT happen but unfortunately that is not the present situation.

Also, what would have happened had Chelle and Amanda not made the trip? Shelagh had already stated shes got some limitations (not to mention being worried sick, and run off her feet) what would have happened to her in terms of resources etc?

I think everyone entered into this visitation with a firm knowledge of the risks, but also an understanding of the necessity and lack of a better way (and you must admit ALOT of precautions were taken - which is better than most would have thought to do). Also - I would venture a guess that Chelle would say "it's what a good friend will do" - but again thats just ME throwing that out there.
I agree Anne. I was talking this morning to a friend of mine that headsup a large Rescue, they have their own facility, but do not have enough fosters, or homes to do proper QT, so, they DO NOT do it. I asked what she did do then, she said we house newer rats/GP/hamsters, etc in a seperate ROOM. If they COULD they would, but they cannot. They do their best, just like we do, and have to take risks, like we do, or the animals remain where they are... In the snow, sick, hungry, snake tanks, etc.

I'm in the process of trying to find someone who loves rats, but doesn't OWN their own, so they can QT for me, but it's NOT an easy thing to do. So for now, i'm not taking in ANY rats, BUT I will say this, if I cannot find a proper QT, it will NOT stop me from doing what I do! There's not enough of us that do this to have the option....
 
I think Ratlove and Cait have covered pretty much anything that could be considered "gossiping" and is the general concern that is going around the forum at the minute, and i am finding it hard to believe that anyone else can't see the points they are making. There is nothing mean being said, or going around, or any blame. Just concern.
 
No offense but that doesn't have anything to do with this situation, my problem is that other people have knowingly put their on ratties at risks. If you really have to deliver supplies then I would just leave them outside the door, if it really came to it, rather than enter the airspace and take that bacteria back home to your own rats.
 
ryelle said:
I think Ratlove and Cait have covered pretty much anything that could be considered "gossiping" and is the general concern that is going around the forum at the minute, and i am finding it hard to believe that anyone else can't see the points they are making. There is nothing mean being said, or going around, or any blame. Just concern.

Thank you Ryelle, I completely agree that it's concern, not just talking behind someones back to be spiteful.
Everybody is concerned because it involves rats, and that's why we are all here, our rats.
 
And now it's out. :thumbup:

I only figured out not long ago who the rats possibly were. Its very unlikely to be a whole new virus...there are really not that many rat viruses out there. Bella said its most likely SV from her experiences and my information. She says most likely because she is a scientist and it hasn't been confirmed with an ELISA or an MFI test yet.

I also thought it was Sendai when it first hit me, and started researching like mad and refreshing everything i know, they symptoms fit :( I was very objective when doing my research (its necessary).


but I really don't know why its soo concerning to so many members? Its not even near them?

You may be self-sufficient for so many things but I am not. The aspen and litter is at Ren's near Guelph, etc...I will continue to need these things.

When I go see my vet once he returns I know to tell him that he cannot see rats for 3 hours afterwards just in case.

Shoes stay in hallways and are not put in with rats in that 3 hour period, which is why they really aren't that important. I don't know many people who touch the bottom of their shoes LOL

I will be seeing people after work now that I am set up for weeks, possibly more, and the virus is long dead on me.

and its very possible the stupid game of Telephone has been in play here, where the information has been distorted through other people. Plus I also got PM's from people not just information from Chelle.

But this is stuff that should be in the open, so as a family we can bicker, and disagree and then put it past us.
 
ratloveandcute said:
No offense but that doesn't have anything to do with this situation, my problem is that other people have knowingly put their on ratties at risks. If you really have to deliver supplies then I would just leave them outside the door, if it really came to it, rather than enter the airspace and take that bacteria back home to your own rats.
chelle, and Amanda did NOT go straight home, they took percautions. Waiting over 3 hrs, showering, and blowing noses, changing clothes, etc.
 


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