Respiratory Infection?

[SQ]

As you said medication is very important, and a matter of life or death.
You might consider taking a good book etc with you and just showing up and sitting in the waiting room until someone will speak with you about meds. Vets are often very busy and sometimes do not return phone calls.

As a rat owner who is concerned about her pets, I find this very upsetting and frustrating when it happens to me.

I hope your sweet boy is doing ok

 

[_ratowner]

As you said medication is very important, and a matter of life or death.
You might consider taking a good book etc with you and just showing up and sitting in the waiting room until someone will speak with you about meds. Vets are often very busy and sometimes do not return phone calls.

As a rat owner who is concerned about her pets, I find this very upsetting and frustrating when it happens to me.

I hope your sweet boy is doing ok

Thank you for your concern.

I can’t just show up and sit in the waiting room until someone will speak to me because only the vet that I have dealt with before can approve the request to get a prescription for azithromycin and she always seems to be on break (or vacation) whenever we go in.

I understand that vets are very busy, but wouldn’t they get around to it at some point? It’s been quite some time since we requested the prescription and she hasn’t gotten back to us yet.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[Mr.Biggiesworth]

PART 1


Hi Ratowner,

Quick preface to my response--please forgive any spelling or grammatical errors as well as a possible lacking in language eloquence. I am incredibly short on time, but I saw a part of your issue whilst scrolling my inbox and could not resist replying as best I could.

I know the frustration you are feeling as I have been in your position myself, not too long ago. I also live in an area where there are few vet choices that specialize in rats and those that claim they do have provided disappointing results to say the least.

I did find a vet who did not specialise in rats who has actually been the most helpful of the lot, so I just wanted to give a quick note to not dismiss them completely as potential resources.

Please pardon the bullet point format from hereon:

--First, your current vet clinic sounds just terrible and you have my utmost sympathies. (Unrelated, but many years ago I was once stuck with an exotics vet who quite coldly informed me that my reptile had passed, but more like "yeah, it's dead. Talk to the front about cremation options." before turning and leaving me in the consult room with tears streaming down my face. So I feel terrible to hear about your struggles and am writing here to hope in even some small way I can possibly assist you, if not with advice, then perhaps come comfort that you aren't alone, it's not your fault, and that you are doing your best. : )



REGARDING YOUR CURRENT VET CLINIC

--The other vets at the clinic should be able to either (a) review your vets notes/history log and authorize a refill or; (b) have a consult with you themselves to then provide you with the refill.

--Even if the other vets at the clinic do not specialize in rats, they should still be able to do either of the above. There is no legal constraint on that. If they are refusing to do either, I would want to know specifically why they cannot review the details to offer a refill due to the urgent nature of your issue. Prescribing a new medication or offering alternate advice I can see possibly being an issue if they are not specifically trained, but even a vet who is not specializing in rats can review the notes and be able to make an informed decision.

--I have had that issue myself. Pets health do not go on vacation when a vet does--someone at the clinic should be able to assist. If they are not, it's just poor judgement on their call.

--I would stress how rats health turns bad rather quickly--much more so than some other animals, so waiting around is not an option. I know other individuals have posted that here as well. It might sound like you are being condescending or a pushy client to say this, but unfortunately, some times you may be forced to be "that client". You know, the one that you likely wouldn't want to receive a call from b/c sadly, it's those ppl who get the assistance b/c the staff just want them off their back. I hate to say that, but after a long time of customer service in various institutions and businesses, it's true. It's not about being rude or demanding, I just mean, being assertive and informed and pressing for details or assistance when we normally wouldn't b/c we want to be polite.

--It is true that if your vet is not returning your calls (after all you have been through in this situation) you should definitely try an alternative communication method. If you are not receiving results by leaving messages that are never returned, you should call back. Call every hour as another member on here suggested. It may sound like you are being rude or inappropriate, but you would not be the first person ever to have to take these steps. If none of these issues occurred and you were to start off like that, I would agree that that behaviour is unreasonable, but at this point, it is your rats (potential) life vs being more active in your contact with them.

--If you were at the clinic and your vet was on lunch break, I would wait there until she returned. I would wait there until someone assisted me.

--Please excuse me if my perception is incorrect, but you seem like you are a nice, polite, possibly more reserved person, younger, who does not like upsetting others, creating scenes, etc. I am sorry if that is offensive, it was just my perception in the limited passages on here. I say that as I was and at times, still am, quite like that. I hate to be the demanding, loud, annoying, etc. person, and I try my best to be polite and respectful. Sadly, sometimes "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" is true. It became easier over time for me to be more assertive. After encountering the same issues you have with your vet, I had to be more vocal and more informed and not rely on others, trusting they will do as they say.

--When you do visit the vet, take with you all of the information you have gathered yourself. I have found that I need to rely on myself to ensure the health of my rats b/c we are all just humans after all, and sometimes we forget things, or don't think of some things. So if you have done your own research, you can suggest treatment options with the vet and also get their input on it.

--My point above saved my rats life not too long ago. Due to the limited specialists in my area, I am currently seeing a clinic with vets that do not specialise in rats. One of my rats is currently in the throes of a respiratory illness, and is sadly nearing her end. But she has gained several months now just from my own research and doing what you are doing--asking around. Asking knowledgeable people is a great step and I am glad to hear that you reached out. : )

--My little honey was on deaths doorstep and the steam shower, oxygen and steroid shot that helped her in the past were no longer producing any results. I had been gathering my own details from various webpages/forums/etc., (weeding out the incorrect info) and suggested a bronchodilator. My vet had not thought of that idea as her clinic only had one fitted for larger animals. After me mentioning if she had one, it made her think if there was a way for her to further treat my rat, and unbelievably, she found a way and months later, I still have my honey.

--That is why I suggest you do your own research and bring that with you. Also, it demonstrates your knowledge and allows you to have a deeper understanding of what is causing the illness in your rat which in turn allows you to assist him/her better at home.

--From what you have described, it does not sound like your vet would be the type to do this, but who knows. Some vets/clinics are very compassionate and care deeply about the animals they see. I hit a rough patch (personal health complications) where I was low on cash but needed vet assistance for my rats. Some vet clinics insisted they would not offer a repeat of medication without another consult. When I had the money either for the consult or the medication, they were unsympathetic, despite the outcome being my rat dying had I chosen the vet visit. Another clinic was much better and after switching to them, they have helped me immensely. Within reason of course, my repeats do not require a consult, they check out my other rats under the visit of one booking, consults are charged as repeat visits which cost less, etc. I had a few emergency visits and my vet did not even charge me for the emergency service or the visit, just the take home medication. They truly cared whether my rat lived or died, and it's evident. I sincerely hope a clinic like this opens up near you : ) But in the meantime, they may be sympathetic if you are strapped for cash, like I was.
I was not using my health issues/job loss to evoke sympathy and discounts, but I explained how repeat consults for refills etc, was not feasible and they worked with me to ensure my pet received care. I don't know if your vet would be more responsive or provide you with alternate costs if they knew that returning repeatedly etc was not a good option for you. And I can understand if you do not feel comfortable discussing your situation with them, but I just wanted to add this point, as it has been my saving grace during my period of financial difficulty.

--I would hope that your clinic would still see your rat in an emergency rather than turn you away if you showed up for assistance. My new clinic would rather a few ppl wait a bit than let an animal pass.

--One of the great things about Ontario, Canada (my former residence) is that there are reviews online about everything. I thought that was a common thing everywhere, but apparently not! : )
You might want to google your clinic/vets to see what other ppl have written about them as well as see if any of the other clinics around your area have better ratings. A two hour drive may stress out your little guy, but that is no comparison to him receiving delayed/incorrect treatment. I cannot stress enough how critical timing is when it comes to rat health turning south. Even one day can make a life or death change.

--On your trips to the vet, you can include a blanket that has your or your rats scent on it so he has something comforting to hide in if trips stress him out. You could try to bring some treats, although I have always found my rats too scared to want to eat, but some rats happily take the treats whilst out. Not sure if you already do that, but just thought I'd mention it since you indicated the stress of your rat on outings.

 

[Mr.Biggiesworth]

PART 2
(Too long to send in one post)


REGARDING TREATMENT/ASSISTANCE FOR YOUR RAT
----"Sounds like substantial lower respiratory disease so fast action needed -" I absolutely agree with the individual who posted this. Sounds like my girl and she is getting deeper into the respiratory illness. But medication can prolong life, so I wouldn't panic just yet. I don't want to scare you. Some rats can live months all the while making noises. Making the noise does not mean instant death. But again, correct medication and environmental changes are critical.

--in the meantime, there are a few things you can do at home to help:

+get a warm vaporizer. You can add a few drops of eucalyptus syrup appropriate for the vaporizer (used for humans to help open passages). Rats require a more moist/humid environment than humans do, so having a warm mist vaporizer (may also be labelled as "humidifier" in Canada) is important both for your ill guy and for the others.

+I would suggest you start steam showers with your rat. This is where you are in a steamy room, typically the shower, so your rat can breathe in the warm, moist air. You know when you have a blocked nose and steam helps clear you? That's basically how it's temporarily helping your rat. Once or twice a day.

+You can also get an inhaler and give him ventolin. Can't recall if that is by script only in Ontario or not. Asthmatics use that to help with breathing, and that will help as well. I use a tube of toilet paper to direct the spray. Others put the animal in a small area and spray it into the area.

+I also now have a nebulizer, which is even better. The nebulizer actually sprays the medication into a mist that is inhaled directly into the lungs, which is more effective than inhalers that shoot medication into the throat. Likely a script for the nebuliser meds will be required. These machines can become pricey, however ebay has helped with a portable one at a very reasonable cost.

Dang, I have a few other points I would like to share, however I must run. I hope to return within a few hours to jot down the rest.

I do wish you all the very best with your vet assisting your little sunshine. It's time for my little ball of sunshine to see her vet now, so I must prepare. We wish you the best, and I hope to return in a few hours to jot down just a few more points that might help you.

Best,

OK, Pancake, Mr. Biggiesworth : )

PS--I am not a vet, and am just providing you with suggestions that I have received from vets and personal experience. Always confirm with a vet/own research. :

 

[Mr.Biggiesworth]

REGARDING TREATMENT/ASSISTANCE FOR YOUR RAT CON'T, PT1 of 2 of the Continuation

--If you aren't already, I would suggest being extra vigilant and on top of ensuring their cage/play area is clean/dust free, etc. Clean out the poop bin daily, etc. Breathing in urine and faeces is extra harmful when managing a respiratory illness. From first hand experience, daily cleaning routines have made a large impact on the progression and severity. This is not to say that prior to the symptoms of the development, I was careless and lax with cage/play area cleaning, I just had to develop a more stringent system that may sound extreme depending on the person. There is A LOT more that goes into rat care than I ever imagined when I first became a rat owner. Despite doing the regular research about care/cost/diet/etc that everyone should look into before becoming a pet owner, I never knew the extent to which their care could go. In all honesty, I was a reptile owner for a decade and a half prior to a shift over to mammals. There never was any of these more time consuming/expensive situations. I am happy to accommodate to provide my rats with any amount of love and care they require, but when I first became interested, I can admit I would have been blown away to know that a rat could become such an expensive, time-consuming pet. And I don't say that negatively, although I am sure it is sounding as such.
I was absolutely ignorant about the vast difference between rats and hamsters. What I read did not seem entirely believable, especially just coming away from the mindset that rats were "just food" for reptiles.

I ramble on about that just in case you are new to owning rats and some of the suggestions from the lovely people in this forum and elsewhere seem a bit over the top, atypical, unnecessary, etc. It would have come as a huge shock to me at that time to hear that years later, my two $8 pet store rats would cost hundreds in vet consults, surgeries, medication and other items like a vaporizer, nebulizer,...not to mention the work put into the frequency of cleaning...

Since then, I have definitely learned and grown (esp the sad truth about pet store sales) and have learned a new appreciation for a species that has had a bad rep in some places for far too long.

Anyhow...with that I'll segue back to my points...

--Allergies are possible to develop and sometimes replacing everything in the cage might be necessary. There are medications that can be used that treat allergy symptoms in humans that vets use for rats (at least in places where rats are not common as pets and clinics do not stock for them). I have read and discussed various antihistamines and "cold syrups" with my vet. For some rats depending on their situation, those might be options. Regardless of whether it is allergies or respiratory, some allergy medications open the airways, which can assist with both conditions. It might be something to mention to your vet since these options would be a pretty cheap method for you to use to delay the progression of damage. It might help tide you over until you are in a better financial place as well. BUT, this is ONLY as a supplement. The medications that have been suggested earlier in the thread are far more important--I suggest this as an ADDITIONAL medication that MIGHT help and should be discussed with a vet first. I hope I have not been too convoluted in trying to explain that.
This was the information I gathered as well as what various vets around me have indicated. But again, always get your own confirmation before proceeding with something. Who knows, maybe my vets here are giving me advice to treat strains that are not typically present in Canadian rats, or any other possibility.

--On a similar note, if your gut is telling you something about the vet or the treatment, don't dismiss it. It might not be correct in the end, but it's worth a second thought. I have encountered some vets who claimed to specialise in rats who did not know some very basic information about safe bedding or safe food to eat, so sometimes a second opinion or even raising questions with your vet about current treatment is helpful.

--You have indicated that it is during the night time that your little guy experiences an increase in his breathing difficulties--are you able to discern any reason why this would occur at night more than other times? This might seem quite basic, but it can be difficult to pin point some environmental or stressful things that can affect your rats.

--I highly recommend starting a daily journal (again, I know, a lot of work and time) and just noting anything of significance to help you and your vet narrow down triggers and alleviations. Atypical behaviour, when the breathing events occurred, what they were like and for how long, what preceded the episode...etc. Having it written out not only gives you something to track, but something that is more concrete to provide to the vet. It's easy to forget details especially when there are a lot to remember for each day, but if you jot them down, you don't have to manage it all in your head, and it's something you can easily share with someone else.

--I wish I had started a journal, but only began once a very virulent strain of respiratory bacteria was present in my rat. By noting all the details, I was able to determine a more cause and effect relationship than being unsure. I had more suggestions, questions and thoughts for my vet during consultations. (It really is left on the owner a lot when there are vet clinic issues. A lot has been learning on my own, much like a college course where I then check in with the vet (professor) to tweak and direct my learning. )

--The journal could also help with noticing patterns, behaviours of your rat or yourself that intensify/ reduce symptoms,...even small changes can have a huge impact.

--So you know nighttime is when it becomes worse, what other symptoms are present or absent that you can note? Red around the eyes or nose at all? More than during the day? More in general than before symptoms presented?
--What is different at night than during the day? Anything you can detect at all? Air Con/Heating off/on, change in temperature, anything added to his room only at night? etc
--How long do episodes of this breathing difficulty last? Minutes, hours?
--Does his behaviour change at all when experiencing the breathing difficulty? Like, does he no longer have an interest in food or treats, does he lay in the cage more limp, are his eyes still bright/open/attentive?
--Does he experience very deep and heavy breathing? Like do you see his chest heaving to breathe, or is that more or less still the same as when not experiencing the symptoms?
--Do you see any clear or milky fluid either dribbling or sneezed out from their nose?
--Does a wet sneeze or cough sound ever occur? Like it just sounds like a wet sneeze or a wet cough or just the noises heard in the clip you posted?
--Does he experience any piloerection during his symptomatic periods? (puffing up of his fur)
(These are helpful answers to provide to your vet to help them determine whats up.)

--Is the time you spend with your rats near/right before nighttime? I ask as physical activity and extreme emotions is a trigger for my rats respiratory symptoms to start up again/increase. After the respiratory issue began developing, I noticed this connection between her duration and intensity of playtime and her symptoms increasing. There was a delay between the two which is what took me a bit to connect them together (thank you journal! haha). Is it possible that your rat is very active right before bed, and then whilst resting, the symptoms build?
It wasn't until my rats stopped playing and went to nap or sleep that symptoms began.

 

[Mr.Biggiesworth]

REGARDING TREATMENT/ASSISTANCE FOR YOUR RAT CON'T, PT2 of 2 of the Continuation

But the amount of exercise might be something to look into or chat with your vet about to see if it is something affecting your little guy.

--The steam showers I highly recommend. They shouldn't hurt your rat, if anything either help or be neutral. I'm not sure where you heard/read about the rats lungs downing in moisture or something to that effect with a humidifier, but that's a point I haven't ever encountered for a symptomatic or asymptomatic rat. They require a more humid environment than humans do, esp with the damage respiratory bacteria causes in the sinuses, throat and lungs of rats. If you happen to recall where that was from, I would be interested in viewing this alternate opinion about it.

--If you haven't already, you may even want to just see if a steam shower has any effect on him at all. In the earlier stages of the illness in my rat, a steam shower would cut out all those noises and bring her right back to looking like nothing had ever been going on. Now they do not have that visible of an effect, but they are still recommended by my vets. Might be worth having those details to provide to your vet to help them determine the intensity of this if a specimen sample is too costly.

--The vets should be able to gather a specimen sample to determine which strain of the bacteria your rats have, which may help with knowing whether it is a particularly virulent strain. It could help with knowing the best treatment and what kind of emotional ride you might be in for. (Not always an option on a tighter budget. Some clinics charge too much for the procedure.)

--My vet does not charge for oxygen given to my rat when we go to the vet on those days she had bad symptoms that concerned me. Some vets charge, but if not, that might help your little guy too if the journey there and back is stressful. If definitely helps my little honey.

*****

I think I have rambled on long past my time. I tried to be quick and concise, but clearly I have not mastered the art of not rambling, repeating and going on tangents.
If you managed to get through all my writing--congrats! you have serious patience! haha--but seriously, if you did, or even if you didn't I hope in some way this has helped you and your special guy, if not now, maybe some time later.

And if not, I'm sorry. But at least with the amount of people who have responded to your thread, you can walk away knowing that sometimes strangers do care and you're not completely alone in this.

All my best to you both, keep us updated. : )

Mr. Biggiesworth & Friends

 

[_ratowner]

How were you "short on time"? That response was a novel, wow. (That wasn't meant to be snarky if it sounds that way)

Thank you so much for your response. Something that I forgot to mention was that when I went in to get the baytril and request the azithromycin, the worker at the front desk said that the vet may need to research the drug. I understand that it takes time to research things correctly and that that may be a factor to why she hasn't called back, but we requested it almost a weeks ago and she just never calls us back whenever we are told she will. We always have to take action and push them to help us.

Like you said, even a vet who doesn't specialize in rats can help me out. Anyone can research the effects and risks of a drug. I am not saying that someone who is untrained can diagnose mediation, because it can backfire if they don't know enough about it. The staff at the vet I go to just leave it to the vet that we have dealt with before to deal with the situation but she does nothing about it anyways. I haven't seen her since the first time I ever took him to the vet because she is either on vacation or on break. They just tell us that she will call us but she never does.

I understand when you say that "waiting around is not an option" and I agree. I hate having to wait on another person that doesn't do their part. It is all I can do, sadly. They may not be doing what is expected of a vet because they are inexperienced with rats (I don't think there are a lot of rat owners where I live, but I don't know) and because rats aren't a cat or a dog so "they don't matter" as much.

The other staff at the vet clinic is able to mix up his baytril when we need it but in order to get the azithromycin, the vet that assessed my boy originally has to approve it, which sucks because, again, she never calls back.

As you and other members have suggested, I could just sit in the clinic until someone assisted me or the vet came back from lunch break, but even if I did, she would still have to do research on azithromycin and that could take a long time on her part. You suggested that I bring the information I gathered with me to show to them but I feel that by doing that they may think that I think that they are doing their job incorrectly. I mean, they aren't doing it correctly, sorry to say. It shouldn't take this long to write a prescription. By running their business this way, animals could die because they are taking too long.

There is no need to apologize. Your perception of me is not offensive at all, it is somewhat correct actually. I really don't like to offend people of make them feel mad or sad but if I feel something needs to be done about a situation, I try to get it done. This is off topic but an example of this is that in another thread of mine I was talking about how I tried to help someone out with the fact that their cat had kittens by doing all I could and giving them advice on the situation. I was trying to make it so that the kittens had a chance at life but she didn't know what she was doing and 5 kittens and the mom cat all sadly passed away.

I am not trying to ruin their business or anything but I think that the vets here could care less if someone's animal suffered, as long as they get the money (please don't sue me). I have heard many people complain about the service there. I have heard of someone who took their animal in because it was having problems (possibly a Timor) and were refused services because they didn't have the money to pay for it.

You suggested to look up reviews on Google about the vet clinic and I have before, there are mixed reviews but I mean who would post a bad review knowing that your name is attached to it. There is only one vet clinic where I currently live.

My thing is about having to take my boy to vet visits is that he is more comfortable when his brother is with him, even while at home. I don't really want to have to deprecate them for a long period of time but on the other hand I don't want to have to stress both of them out immensely by taking them both with me.

I have heard that using a humidifier can cause drowning in a rats lungs. I do not remember where I heard/saw this. I wanted to get a space heater since it is winter and also the room they are kept in (my room) is the coldest room in the house for some reason but whenever I go to buy one they are out of stock.

One of the workers at the clinic did suggest that it could be that he has allergies but as people have said on this thread previously, rats should be medicated for around 6 weeks but I was only given enough medication for 10 days, I only got enough for 7/8/9 days if I am being realistic. I was the one that suggested to the vet that he be given 6 weeks worth of medication and I was able to get it for 42 days (6 weeks).

The vet I go to is a DVM (I think that's what they are called) which someone above stated that they do training on a bunch of animals so they don't concentrate on one for too long so they may not be that educated on rat care and such.

Yes, his breathing was more rough towards the night time but that was before he stared his medication, I don't hear him breathing roughly anymore. A factor to this could have been the cold as the temperature drops during the night and it is also winter so it is freezing cold outside and also as I stated before, the room they are kept (my room) in is the coldest room for some reason and no, they can't be moved from that room. This is why I wanted to get a space heater to warm up the room.

I have a video on his breathing that I have posted on this thread of his breathing from before he was on his medication. I am not with him 24/7 so I wouldn't be able to track every time his breathing was apparent. The rough breathing only lasted a few minutes. Sometimes he would stop if I would pay attention to him, like click at him if it's late and I'm tired or if I would go up to the cage and talk to him. His breathing would be apparent during the night but also when he would first get taken out of the cage when I held him which I guess both situations were somewhat stressful and that's why it was occurring at those times. Even when his breathing was rough he would still happily take a piece of food from me if I offered it to him. I will hopefully be getting the azithromycin that I requested soon. His breathing has been normal in the mean time.

None of this is supposed to sound like a jab towards you. If you find that any of it does, I apologize.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write a novel of information to help me with my situation. I appreciate it a lot. I wish you and your rat(s) the best

Also, if any of my information is incorrect, please feel free to correct me or discuss it.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[Mr.Biggiesworth]

PT1

Hahahahaha, incredibly, that response was short for me. I have a tendency to go on and on and on.......haha.

I would have preferred to have written a more coherent, less informal/sloppy post, but I am supposed to be working on other material (shhhh) haha.

It was impossible to resist sparing the time when I happened across your note detailing the distress your vet clinic is causing and the unfortunate situation where it is not possible to just see another vet. I lived in Toronto prior to moving out of the country and naturally, there is a vast selection of specialists to choose from--all of whom are a reasonable travel distance.

I am located in an area where rats are not a popular pet choice and there are few clinic options available. Despite the city having numerous vet clinics, there are few that will accept a rat as a patient, and even fewer with a specialised vet.

Your vet clinic sounds unreasonable and appalling. Even with the light selection of vets in my area, all of the doctors and even the reception staff have been thrilled to see my little guys. It is evident they care about their work and each animal that crosses their clinic's threshold. My current clinic always leaves me feeling bright, even on the rough days in some way due to their dedication and enthusiasm they have towards my guys. It always brings a huge smile to my face to hear the girls voices traveling around as they notify the next staff member that Pancake just arrived.

I feel deep sympathy for you and your situation, with everything you are struggling against. It is very close to my own situation not too long ago.

The two vets that were the main doctors who examined my guys sadly left the clinic and a new vet with the next best rat knowledge has become my regular vet. The first time I met with her, I brought up the use of a nebuliser which requires a medical script. She agreed that this could be beneficial but was unsure about the dose/potential interactions with the medication my honey is already taking. She ran and grabbed the medical dosage/interaction handbook right then and looked it up. There was another issue that would take a bit more of her time to research and in 24 hours she had responded to me. There is no excuse for a clinic to continually ignore a client in your situation. It angers me that your vet is dragging their heels when other vets I have visited have taken no longer than a day or two for anything.

It is incredibly frustrating when everything is put onto you, and you are stuck doing part of their job as well. As if you don't have enough stress already just worrying about your little fella!

I'm glad you were not offended by my perception of you--I do mean it in the nicest way possible. I am really grateful and appreciate of all of the people who do think of others and try to be polite and considerate--it is a trait that is lacking too greatly I find.

I wish I could articulate better what I meant when I wrote about being assertive and being persistent. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you haven't been with the clinic or in life in general--I sincerely hope it did not come off as such. I am more describing my own transition which I thought could be helpful in the event you had the same personality type as myself. Never wanting to be a burden, not wanting to seem rude or pushy or whatever--I've realised over the years that you cannot live focused on what you think others think of you. It was incredibly hard for me to do that in practise but eventually it gets easier. And I don't mean not caring about others, I just mean pushing past those feelings of being a burden or annoyance, or whatever when the situation calls for it.

If you don't feel comfortable bringing in material, then don't do that, do what works for you. But however you do it, just remember that you are a paying client and there is nothing rude or obnoxious about asking questions, or even questioning what the vet says. Obviously, politely and tactfully, but if not done in a condescending manner, but just inquisitive and genuinely desiring that knowledge, reasonable doctors will be happy to have a discussion with you. That is how we all learn. I would imagine they would be more skeptical of a client who didn't ask questions or ask for more clarity or details. This only means you are attempting to gain the required knowledge to better care for your pet, which is what I would hope vets would care about. Your current one excluded. : /

It's a shame that the anonymous review sites haven't had any hits for your area. I suppose my history in a large city temporarily blinded me to the fact that not every city and town in Canada is like Toronto. Haha.

 

[Mr.Biggiesworth]

PT2


Ah, back to your clinic for a sec--have you out right asked what the issue was with another vet reviewing the notes? Or why you have not been contacted? It sounds confrontational, but if you are polite but firm, you actually get somewhere. At least in my experience transitioning from ultimate people-pleaser to "I matter as well". I can also understand if this is too difficult to do (if you haven't already or don't feel able to). There is a whole spectrum of personalities and anxieties out there, so what is easier for one person might not be possible for another. And if you think any of my suggestions would make the situation worse, then do what feels right for you. I just wanted to throw out some points just in case anything helped.

And after seeing that I wrote "waiting is not an option", I cringe at my poor choice of language. That sounds really douchey and I'm sorry for that. I meant that more in the general sense, not something directed at you personally. I recognise all your actions and attempts and think you should give yourself some credit. A lot of pet owners do not go to the lengths you have gone to for their pets, either to diagnose the issue or to treat it. Particularly when it comes to animals that are seen as "lower"--like rats--the investment and care is not always there. You deserve to take pride in all of your efforts even if your vet fails you. You are doing all that you can and your ratties are lucky to have you instead of some of the owners out there.

When I had hamsters I was sadly told by the vet that they almost never see hamsters. I always brought mine in just for a general check up to make sure they were good as well as at any signs of discomfort or health issues. If you take on a pet, you take on the responsibility of ensuring care, regardless of whether it is a dog or a hamster. Hamsters still feel sick. They still feel pain. I chose to take them into my care and keep them happy and healthy to the best of my ability. It is incredibly sad the rep that rats have and how it translates into clinical care. : (

Your video clip I did see, but it was too dark to get any idea of his chest breathing. My computer screen is also super dull so anything even remotely dark is impossible to see.

I'm happy to hear the medication has reduced his symptoms. Still being bright eyed with an appetite is a good sign. My girl gets symptoms with extended exercise as well as extreme emotions--either positive or negative. She can get herself so excited over a treat as well as so upset that Mr. Biggies got the treat first. Haha. So much drama! So maybe seeing you in the morning is a happy, exciting time, which could aggravate things. Also, after a rest there can be symptoms as the body is no longer in that excited active state, fluids could build, etc.

And no jabs, no offense taken, all good. Even if your reply was a bit snarky, I can totally understand given the stress you are dealing with. Its not always easy to interpret exactly how someone means something when it's written--especially if you don't know the person. So I understand you are trying to take in a lot of responses and even my own language used to express my points in my previous posts makes me cringe as I can see it being misinterpreted. But anyone reading it wouldn't have any idea of how it came across to me when I initially wrote it, so ... I'm rambling.

Okay, gotta run. All my best to you, hang in there. Give yourself the double thumbs up superstar, save the down turned thumbs for your clinic. You're doing great; your little guys are lucky to have an attentive, protective and caring owner. Every time he runs up to you excitedly he's saying thanks, you rock. : )

Keep us updated. You're in our thoughts. : )

O

 

[_ratowner]

I feel bad that I am leaving such a short reply in response to your novel of a reply. Sorry about that.

Where I am located, it is much smaller than Toronto and sadly there are no good vets in my area that I currently know of. It sucks that there is such a loss for reputable vets that are able to treat rats.

It is quite frustrating that it has been so long since I requested the prescription and they still haven't gotten back to me. I don't understand why it is taking so long.

It might just me but I don't quite understand what you meant by "I wasn't trying to insinuate that you haven't been with the clinic or in life in general--I sincerely hope it did not come off as such." It may just be reading it incorrectly, I don't know.

I haven't out right asked what the problem with another vet reviewing the notes so that they can help me out because all the workers who assist me when I go in always tell me that his vet has to deal with it (not worded that way of course) and that she will call us back but again, she never does. I suppose that she is "busy" and that is why she can't call back but it shouldn't take this long just to write a prescription.

I understand that the "waiting is not an option" statement was not directed at me personally and I did not take it that way. I understand where you were coming from and I didn't find it "douchy" of you to say. I agree that "waiting is not an option" because a lot can happen in a little span of time. It isn't good to drag something on for too long especially if it has to do with the health of a living being.

I purposely made it so that the video I posted of his breathing was dark. The camera was just pointed at the cage bars I think so there wouldn't have been anything to see in the video anyways. I was trying to capture the sound of his breathing more than what he looked like if that makes sense.

Thank you so much for your replies and all the advice and help that you have given me. Sorry again for such a short reply. Thank you for understanding that tone may not be interpreted properly through text on a screen and that I was not trying to be rude in any shape or form. It was nice to hear that other people have gone through similar experiences as I have and that others can see the situation from my point of view. I appreciate all the help and replies. Thank you again. I wish all the best to you and your rattles. They are lucky to have such a knowledgable owner like yourself.

Here's to hoping that the vet calls back soon.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[SQ]

I did not read much of the above essay,
but it is dangerous to take a rat into a steamy bathroom - if fluid is building up in the rat's lungs this will make the rat worse or possibly kill the rat Edit: yes it can be helpful to do if fluid is not building up in the lungs but as pet owners we do not have the resources to tell the difference …. some people do take them into a steamy washroom and watch they carefully and if they do not start to improve then they take them out of there

The ratguide.com is a vet approved medical site for rat owners. Many people print out information from this to take with them to the vet and ask questions, ask about certain medications etc
I believe I already provided you with links that may be appropriate
you can go to the site and search "breathing" and a number of good links will come up

Rat owners need to be proactive …. We all have had times when we had to do this, it isn't easy but it is necessary
If they do not call back then you need to go sit in the waiting room and stay there until you can either see a vet or have the meds your rattie needs. You can not wait for phone calls that never come.

I have no idea where you live, but you keep saying that you can not provide the care your rat needs. if this is true, then please see if a good rat rescue will take them. …………………….. If you do not have a nearby vet that will provide medical care, then you will need to travel. Many people have had to do this.

 

[_ratowner]

I have not brought my rat into a steamy room even though I am told to listen and do what a vet tells me to do and I have been told BY A VET that bringing a rat into a steamy room is bebeficial in some situations. I am still not going to do so either way. If you had the time, and took the time to read the above information, you would know the situation I am in and why I can't "go sit in the waiting room and stay there..." until i can see a vet.

First off, as I've stated before, there is no rat rescues near me and even if there were, I am not giving up on the time and effort I have taken to get these rats and care for them. Who do you think you are, telling someone to give up there pet.
Secondly, What you think is "not a lot of money" could be different from what I think is "not a lot of money". We all have different concepts of what we consider "not a lot of money"
Thirdly, I do not have the TIME or money to travel 2+ hours to a different vet clinic.

Lastly, you need to stop telling people to give their pets away after everything that they are going through to try to help them to have a better life, especially on my threads. Thank you


Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[_ratowner]

UPDATE:
So, the vet called and apparently she did some research on the azithromycin, and she said that baytril and azithromycin DO NOT mix and to just finish his dose of baytril for the 6 weeks. If he is "still sick" then she will prescribe him with the azithromycin but it is "quite pricey."

I do not know whos input I can trust in this situation as both the vet here and random strangers on the internet are both not reputable sources to go by. I dont know what to do anymore because SQ keeps telling me to give away my rats if i can not "care for them properly" and give my boy azithromycin but his vet won't even give me the azithromycin to begin with. So now what?

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[_ratowner]

Any input in regards to my last update?

I am told to give away my rats if I cannot “care for them properly” and give them the baytril and azithromycin combo but my vet won’t approve the request to get a prescription because the two DO NOT mix. I am at a dead end in this situation and don’t know what to do.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[SQ]

http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php
http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php

http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/cardiomyopathy.php
http://ratguide.com/health/viruses/sendai_virus_sv.php
http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

and you could always ask your vet to consult with vets having a great deal of experience in treating rats

 

[Lise Patterson]

Did you ask your vet why she believes the two drugs "do not mix"? My guess is that her concerns focus on the "antagonistic" effect of combining bactericide antiobiotics (e.g. baytril) and bateriostatic antibiotics (e.g. azithromycin)...we discussed this concern earlier, as you may recall. While this effect is worth considering, it does not mean the two kinds of drugs should never be combined. To help put things in perspective, consider the nature of the antagonism in question. Bacteriostatic antibiotics work by slowing down the activity and reproduction of bacteria. Bactericides instead work by killing bacteria, and they tend to target the most actively growing populations of bacteria. The argument for antagonism between these two is as follows: when bacteria are made less active through exposure to bacteriostatic drugs, they become less of a target for bactericides (which are seeking out fast-growing bacteria) - i.e. the bactericidal drug becomes somewhat less potent. Multiple studies have confirmed the presence of such antagonistic effects, but they have also demonstrated two other things:
1) The slowing of bacterial growth does not render bactericides ineffective: it simply reduces their"kill rates" to some degree. As such, the cumulative effect of a bacteriostatic and bactericide is still usually more powerful than the effect of just one drug or the other; and
2) The extent of this antagonism varies markedly among specific drug combinations; some bactericides remain highly potent when combined with certain bacteriostatic antibiotics.
My vets are exotic specialists and readily prescribe the baytril/doxy combo for mycoplasma, even though this is also a pairing of bactericide and bacteriostatic antibiotics.

 

[SQ]

My vets are exotic specialists and readily prescribe the baytril/doxy combo for mycoplasma, even though this is also a pairing of bactericide and bacteriostatic antibiotics.

Great info Lise!
in addition to the above, many vets experienced in treating rats (including my vet), readily prescribe the baytril/azithromycin combo as well

Perhaps, as Lose suggested. your vet will prescribe doxy to be given with the baytril
It is suggested in the ratguide links and you could print out the information and take it with you for your vet to consider
For example:

combination therapy such as enrofloxacin (Baytril) plus doxycycline,

http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php

 

[_ratowner]

Okay, bare with me here because I am tired at the moment and my brain isn't working correctly. I also want to apologize for being such a difficult person.

Should I try to ask my vet again for the azithromycin prescription and print out/bring in information from sources linked above? or is the baytril/doxycyline a better option?
Similar to what you said above, I heard that baytril and azithromycin shouldnt be combined as there is a chance that it may not work as good as it should. I can try as best as I can to talk to her about the azithromycin option. I hear that it is expensive though, are there any estimates on how much it may be?

EDIT:
I just looked up how much azithromycin would cost just so that I could get an estimate, and I found out that azithromycin used to be used to treat chlamydia... wow umm

Another question, if I am able to get the prescription for the azithromycin, do i get the tablets or the powder?
I have also read the side effects that azithromycin could have on humans, is there a possibility that the same side effects can occur if given to rats? How would I know?

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[SQ]

If she will not give azithromycin to be used with baytril, then try to get her to give you the doxy to give with the baytril. The link says baytril + doxy.

Azithromycin is an antibiotic used for human babies. It can be purchased from a drug store with a prescription from a vet. It is a powder before the water is added - I mix it myself instead of having the pharmacist mix it, that way I can divide the powder in half before adding water because it is only good for 10 days once mixed with water. http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/azithromycin.php

I buy doxy from my vet in capsules. I pull one capsule apart and mix the powder that was inside the capsule with water and then measure out the amount needed based on the strength and the weight of my rat. http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/doxycycline.php

 

[Leighalla]

Yes go for the baytril and doxy together , I live in Australia and exotic vets virtually non existent this combo works for me every time with great results. Although I have been told up the baytril dose to get better results