Respiratory Infection?

[SQ]

There is a dose range for all meds.
with azithromycin if you get a prescription from the vet (with refills) then you can buy it and then buy more as you need it. Re baytril the amount he gets depends on his weight so impossible for me to say since I do not know his weight and do not know how long the med will me good for. Azithromycin is only good for 10 days once mixed up, the baytril may only be good for 10 days if mixed up by your vet …………… so get as much as he will need for 6 weeks or as much as he needs for the period of tome it is good for

Sib=ne I do not have enough info, I can not be more specific Baytril 5 mg/Ib orally twice a day, azithromycin 10 mg/Ib orally twice a day - vet should be able to give you enough meds at those doses, but actual amount depends on his weight and you need extra because some will stay in the syringe when you measure it out and some may be spilled.

Please start a different thread on the allergy topic because it is getting lost on this thread

 

[lilspaz68]

ask them for a prescription for pediatric azithromycin. There's pediatric powders you mix with water that are sold for human children. Its given once a day. Usually recommended dosage is 20 mg/kg but we can change that if your vet gives you a lower dose.
Ask for more baytril as the combo is a very effective one.

Youtube is super simple to use, and I upload videos from my phone all the time. Do you have a computer or a cell phone?

 

[_ratowner]

I was able to post a video of his breathing onto YouTube. He was also eating during this.
The link is

He was 1 pound even last time he was weighed. I am going to ask to get enough baytril for 6 weeks. It is mixed with strawberry syrup so that he will take it, I don't know if that effects anything.

So if I am understanding this correctly, get pediatric azithromycin and give it to him once a day? Mixed with water. 20mg/kg. How much would that be for around a one pound rat? Do I do what lilspaz68 says and do 20mg/kg once a day or what SQ says and do 10mg/lb twice a day? Which one is correct. There are people telling me didfferent things and it is all so confusing.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[Lise Patterson]

Yikes. Sounds like substantial lower respiratory disease so fast action needed - pneumonia can kill at lightning speed. Note that 1 pound = about .453 kilos. So for lilspaz68's recommended dose of azithromycin, multiply 20 mgs/kilo by .453 and you get about 9.1 mgs per one pound rat - i.e. close to the 10 mg/lb recommended by SQ. As to once vs twice per day, you must seek answers from the other two or from your vet (I'm more familiar with the baytril/doxy combo). On the bright side, if Harlow is less than 18 months old, as you seem to suggest in earlier email, he has a better chance of bouncing back. But you really must act now to get the 2 meds recommended above!

 

[_ratowner]

Yikes. Sounds like substantial lower respiratory disease so fast action needed - pneumonia can kill at lightning speed. Note that 1 pound = about .453 kilos. So for lilspaz68's recommended dose of azithromycin, multiply 20 mgs/kilo by .453 and you get about 9.1 mgs per one pound rat - i.e. close to the 10 mg/lb recommended by SQ. As to once vs twice per day, you must seek answers from the other two or from your vet (I'm more familiar with the baytril/doxy combo). On the bright side, if Harlow is less than 18 months old, as you seem to suggest in earlier email, he has a better chance of bouncing back. But you really must act now to get the 2 meds recommended above!

Thank you for replying. I looked farther into the medication azithromycin and it said that a baytril/azithromycin combination may not be safe. I appreciate that you did the math for me because that isn't my strong suit. We are going to hopefully get his medication today and I will come back with an update and may need help with dosage just to make sure that I do it correctly. I am going to ask my vet about the baytril/azithromycin combination and see if it is safe.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[Lise Patterson]

Ratowner, where did the excerpt you copied above come from? It does sound more speculative than authoritative.
It is true that Baytril is bactericidal while azithromycin is bacteriostatic, and combining antibiotics from these two different categories can sometimes be problematic. But if you look at the very bottom of the RMCA medication chart (on the Rat Guide site) http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm you will see this word of caution:

• IMPORTANT NOTE — The effects of many bactericidal antibiotics may be impaired when used in combination with bacteriostatic antibiotics. Please take this into account when choosing your drug combinations.

This suggests that combining the two meds may produce impaired (i.e. reduced) results, but it doesn't point to toxicity. Clearly some very seasoned rat-owners on this site have had extensive experience with this combo and have had good results. Based on this alone, I'd guess that the combination is relatively safe, even if some efficacy might be lost through drug interactions.

 

[SQ]

My vet prescribes azithromycin, 10 mg/Ib twice a day. The rat guide suggests 8 mg/Ib twice a day. To be really effective azithromycin needs to be given with baytril.
It is a very effective combination.
Our vets who are very experienced in treating rats would not be prescribing azithromycin with baytril if it was toxic, or if it was not effective.

Azithromycin is an antibiotic sold for human babies at pharmacies and you can buy it with a prescription from your vet. As I mentioned, get the vet to put 5 or 6 refills on the prescription because once the powder is mixed up, it is only good for 10 days

Here is some info on pneumonia that may be helpful to both you and your vet
http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php

 

[_ratowner]

Ratowner, where did the excerpt you copied above come from? It does sound more speculative than authoritative.
It is true that Baytril is bactericidal while azithromycin is bacteriostatic, and combining antibiotics from these two different categories can sometimes be problematic. But if you look at the very bottom of the RMCA medication chart (on the Rat Guide site) http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm you will see this word of caution:

• IMPORTANT NOTE — The effects of many bactericidal antibiotics may be impaired when used in combination with bacteriostatic antibiotics. Please take this into account when choosing your drug combinations.

This suggests that combining the two meds may produce impaired (i.e. reduced) results, but it doesn't point to toxicity. Clearly some very seasoned rat-owners on this site have had extensive experience with this combo and have had good results. Based on this alone, I'd guess that the combination is relatively safe, even if some efficacy might be lost through drug interactions.

I got the screenshot from a different rat forum, I think it was just called Rat Forum. Thank you. I understand that so many people wouldn't be suggesting it if it had a negative result.

 

[_ratowner]

UPDATE:
So here is the situation, and stay with me through it cause I know it isn't that satisfactory. We went the the vets office to pick up my boy's medication and to try to discuss being able to get 6 week worth of medication and also to talk about azithromycin. The person who gave us the medication told us that the vet that was there at the time is not able to because they are not the vet that originally accessed him. When my boy's vet comes back from vacation, she will hopefully get in touch with us and we can further discuss what coarse of action to take, if we are able to get medication for the 6 weeks, and if we can get a prescription for azithromycin. We were given enough baytril for 10 days and his vet will be back on the 10th (last) day so we will talk then.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[lilspaz68]

http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/azithromycin.php

The only drug contraindications are digoxin and theophylline, not baytril.

As for dosing once you have mixed it up (it would either be 20 mg/ml or 40 mg/ml) i can help you work out a dose based on weight. I'm one of the med contributors on Real Rat Lovers Want to Know. Baytril and zithro is my "big gun" combo with a bad or resistant respiratory infection.

You can split the dose for zithro to give it twice a day but once a day is more effective.

Now back to your baytril you have now...what concentration is it (mg/ml), how much does your rat weigh and how much were you told to give him?

 

[_ratowner]

http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/azithromycin.php

The only drug contraindications are digoxin and theophylline, not baytril.

As for dosing once you have mixed it up (it would either be 20 mg/ml or 40 mg/ml) i can help you work out a dose based on weight. I'm one of the med contributors on Real Rat Lovers Want to Know. Baytril and zithro is my "big gun" combo with a bad or resistant respiratory infection.

You can split the dose for zithro to give it twice a day but once a day is more effective.

Now back to your baytril you have now...what concentration is it (mg/ml), how much does your rat weigh and how much were you told to give him?

Okay, thank you for the information.

I was given a mixture of 2.0 mL baytril and 2.0 strawberry syrup so that he would take it. He weights around a pound. He was a pound even last time he was weighed which was in October 2018. I was informed to give him 0.18 mL of the mixture two times a day, one time in the morning and one time at night. I hope this information helps.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[Lise Patterson]

The label on your baytril bottle should give a strength in units of mg/ml. I think lilspaz68 will need to know this for the dosing calculations.
On rare occasions I've received baytril with strength expressed as a % solution (usually 5% or 2.5%); solutions expressed like this are the injectable form of baytril, though they can also be taken orally. Whatever you've got, I hope it's an extra-strong solution or your 2.o ml won't go far.
I assume the vet was proposing a 1:1 ratio of baytril to strawberry syrup, meaning that your prescribed .18 ml dose would contain only .09 ml of the baytril solution.

 

[_ratowner]

The label on your baytril bottle should give a strength in units of mg/ml. I think lilspaz68 will need to know this for the dosing calculations.
On rare occasions I've received baytril with strength expressed as a % solution (usually 5% or 2.5%); solutions expressed like this are the injectable form of baytril, though they can also be taken orally. Whatever you've got, I hope it's an extra-strong solution or your 2.o ml won't go far.
I assume the vet was proposing a 1:1 ratio of baytril to strawberry syrup, meaning that your prescribed .18 ml dose would contain only .09 ml of the baytril solution.

I checked and it does not say the percentage of the strength of the baytril. He consumes it orally. It is all that I have access to until his vet gets back from vacation and can possibly give us a higher dosage if needed, and so we can discuss getting enough meds for 6 weeks and a prescription for azithromycin. She gets back once the 10 days are up so we will see what happens. In the mean time, the baytril solution that I have will at least calm the symptoms until I can get something stronger for longer.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[Lise Patterson]

By all means proceed with what you've got...it's certainly better than nothing. I just fear that your prescribed dose of Baytril alone may not be enough to calm his very acute symptoms, but we'll see what others think.
I hope I did not mislead with my last message; in most cases the concentration is expressed in mg/ml (such as 20 mg/ml) rather than percentages. It is unusual to receive a prescription without any indication of the concentration. Have you checked all the "fine print" above and below your dosage instructions?

 

[_ratowner]

By all means proceed with what you've got...it's certainly better than nothing. I just fear that your prescribed dose of Baytril alone may not be enough to calm his very acute symptoms, but we'll see what others think.
I hope I did not mislead with my last message; in most cases the concentration is expressed in mg/ml (such as 20 mg/ml) rather than percentages. It is unusual to receive a prescription without any indication of the concentration. Have you checked all the "fine print" above and below your dosage instructions?

Here is to hoping that it does work because that is all I have until his vet gets back from vacation as the other vets here cannot approve giving him anything different because they didn't initially evaluate him.

You didn't mislead me with your last message, I just didn't read it properly, sorry. I checked the label again and all it has is information like the vet clinic information, instructions on how to give it to him, his information, the amount of refills, the quantity (meaning the bottle), 2.0mL baytril + 2.0mL strawberry syrup, the date, and a warning. It doesn't say anything about the strength.

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[SQ]

please phone the vet and ask what the strength of the baytril is …. they should tell you the number of mg in a ml (mg/ml)

 

[lilspaz68]

If the vet prescribed 5% baytril injectable that is 50 mg/ml. So using 100 mg of baytril (2 ml,) divided by 4 ml of fluid you get 25 mg/ml. This gives me a dose of 0.18 ml twice a day right on the nose (at 10 mg/kg BID. I prefer 15 mg/kg but then it won't last long enough).

 

[_ratowner]

Lilspaz68, as an administrator, staff member, and admin of this forum, do you think that it would be okay to give him the baytril medication for the 10 days until his vet gets back and then I can talk to her about getting more medication (enough for 6 weeks) and a prescription for azithromycin? I am not able to do anything else until his vet gets back from vacation and she can approve the request. Is it necessary to do the full 6 weeks even if it seems that he has cleared up? Why is the medicating period so long?

Thank you. All replies are appreciated.

 

[SQ]

the recommended time is 4 weeks on antibiotics
myself and some others have found that our rats needed 6 weeks

you need to start him on the baytril as soon as possible
If the info lilsoaz68 suggested above used an incorrect assumption, hopefully she will soon reply to your questions

good luck

 

[lilspaz68]

I would suggest starting the baytril as well. It won't hurt especially since you will be adding an antibiotic to the baytril later on to make a more effective combo.