Rat Scabs.help?

[Fidget]

Using any kind of product designed for other animals, especially much larger animals, has alot of risks. The chemical ingredients used are to the proportions of the animal stated, and could be potentially toxic to a much smaller animal. It's also not suggested to bathe a rat unless absolutely needed, since it could make the problem that much worse from drying out their skin. I'm glad it all worked out fine in your case, Fidget, but I would strongly suggest anyone planning on trying that method to speak with their vet about what products would be safest and a routine to follow.

I absolutely agree with you Javakitte! but I'd already tried everything else and had seen the vet who wasn't much help, just prescribed baytril.. but I asked for oribiotic and was waiting for them to get it in and it was just getting worse so I had to do something...
This '8in1 Perfect Coat Antibacterial Deoderizing' shampoo has 'natural botanical oils to condition skin & coat' so I figured it was worth a try. I put her in the sink and soaked her then just put a tiny bit between her shoulders and lathered & spread it. It didn't seem to dry their coats out at all. Sometimes you get lucky I guess..

 

[benzin.fox]

geneveive had her last ivermectin shot today. she is significantly less scabby. (haha theres a sentence) i'm unsure if that was the cortisone injection from the week before that was the real hero or not. just have to wait and see i guess.

meanwhile i've had marcelle at the vet,last week and audrey yesterday with myco flair ups..

..and now my poodle has another malasezia yeasty ear infection..

so you can imagine how POOR I AM right now.

anyway. i'm going to take some photos of genevieve and post them too see what colour you guys think she is. she's a beigey colour hooded with ruby eyes.some of her fur in the hood looks orangy but some parts of it look light purpley/grey. i will try to get some good pictures -mightpost it in a new topic.

I really can't thank everyone enough for replying to this post,i've learnt a fair bit and i think my girls are happier and healthier for it.

-Thank you

 

[jorats]

Pets can sure put us in the poor house.
Can't wait to see pics of your sweeties!

 

[benzin.fox]

The scabs keep fading away! horray! i hope this keeps up!

*charges camera up for ratty picture time!*

 

[user 78]

That's great news! We can all start calling her Genevieve again, instead of Scabby! :giggle:

 

[mamarat]

:happydance: that's great.

 

[benzin.fox]

she still has scabs.darn.

not as many.only a couple on the back and one between her eyes (looks like a bindi hehe)

i have caught her scratching a couple of times. i am hopeful the scabs will keep going away but i'm not really sure. i'll keep my eye out for the nxt couple of weeks and report back....again...

you poor,poor people!

 

[jorats]

It must be so frustrating for you too. Do you see the two play fight a lot?

 

[benzin.fox]

Ok scabs are back. all of them. no little ones at all now though. they're long and sometimes the curved type - they are the ones that are from other rats? is that right?

-jorats, i do see them play fight but no more than usual. A couple of times a week at night there will be a bit of a scuffle, banging into the cage/squeaks and generally a fair bit of noise for a little bit - it never lasts very long.

I'm waiting for her hair to fully regrow after the skin-scraping she had so i can see if there is still any evidence of power grooming with that clipped fur appearance.

-I'm wondering if the scabs end up being from other rats bites,if there is a product or some kind of food or smell that wont harm them but will deter them from wanting to put geneveieve's skin in their mouths? I know you can deter dogs from chewing with bitter apple spray but i dont know about rats and dont want to harm them.

also i noticed that with the cortisone genevieve started healing and is now all scabby again. Should she be having more of that stuff?

AND lastly is there ANYTHING else i can do to or does ANYONE have ANY ideas about why she is still a scabavieve?

 

[jorats]

If the scabs are longer and curved, I would guess it's the other rats playing with her.
How many rats do you have living with Genevieve? Could the rats be bored? or maybe needing more out time?

 

[user 78]

When you look at the rest of her skin, do you see any white, flakey patches? It'd sort of look like dandruff.. The ivermectin doesn't stop working this quickly, so I'd say it was the cortisone shot that stopped it. Her cagemates may still be power grooming her, but since the scabs mostly went away after the cortisone, they're not doing enough of it to keep her constantly scabby.

Has it been dry in your area lately? Is anyone else, including you, a little more itchy or have dry skin? Have you changed their food recently? What kind of food do they normally get?

 

[benzin.fox]

javakittie- no flakey patches at all but it could be dry because we've just come out of winter and everyones skin has been crazy-dry. (i live in Australia so..yeah)

I havent given them anything totally new food-wise. I look up what they can and can't eat and try to vary their diet a little to keep them interested.

They get a little rat/mouse seed mix, fruit,veges, dry/uncooked pasta (marcelle loves it) left over cooked spaghetti noodles, left over cooked rice, weetbix, sometimes grainy bread. I don't give them lab-blocks anymore because i dont know which to trust in Australia. I can't find any brand-name ones and the rats seem to hate them anyway. I try to change the fuit and veges around so they dont get bored with them. sometimes i give them some dry oats.

jorats- I have two other girls living with Genevieve.They're around a year and a half to nearly two years old.They are let out for at least an hour a day and I constantly walk past the cage and can't help but give cuddles and some play time. Should i be saving for a larger cage? or should i be spending more out of cage time with them?

 

[benzin.fox]

this is the girls cage.
let me know if it is too small or if there is something in there that you think might be irritating the 'vieve.

-the wood in the cage has been sealed,the newspaper soaks up urine and is replaced everyday,as is the bedding.
-they poop down the bottom through the wires and into the tray below,so cute! haha.

in the top photo you can see some of the small scabs on genevieves face. ive just taken some more of her back and am just uploading them to my computer.

ps- what colour would you say my girls are?

 

[user 78]

Your cage is plenty big, no need to get a larger one. You can always do more out time, but the hour + walk by cuddles is good, too.

I'm really at a loss as to what could be causing the scabs other than mites. Even her scabs look like textbook parasite infection. The only thing I can think of is that she's getting reinfected from the newspaper.. It's a paper product, it's exposed to wild rats/rodents in warehouses and such.. Have you tried freezing the newspaper, or using fabric for a bit, to see if that may be the problem? Same goes for those wooden dowels. Even treated wood can harbor eggs, I think.

 

[benzin.fox]

alrighty then! i will remove the dowels and start freezing the newspaper. I'll use old towels on the levels instead and see what happens.

im just about to post some pictures ofherback. they look different to that picture of her face.

 

[user 78]

You want to freeze the newspaper for 48hrs if you can. If you've got limited freezer space [like most of us] you can just freeze a couple of days worth rolled up at a time.

 

[benzin.fox]

these were taken about an hour ago.

-sorry they're so large,im in a rush!

 

[user 78]

Aww, poor Genevieve!

Since you've used both Revolution and Ivermectin, I think you're going to need to wait the full month [from the first Ivermectin shot] to retreat her. I know technically you can treat them every 3 weeks, but you treated her early from the Revolution to Ivermectin.

I'm pre-coffee and RatGuide doesn't seem to want to load for me, so I'm sure I'll have a nice plan of action for you as soon as I'm caffeinated.

ETA : Okay, I've gotten some coffee into me and RatGuide has loaded!

I'm assuming that bald patch over her shoulder is where they did the skin scraping. Poor dear, they always look so wrong when they have fur missing.

Now, according to the Ivermectin information, it's given once a week for 3 weeks. I know several people have continued treatment on this schedule when the mites didn't go away after the first cource. Were you scrubbing the cage and that within 24hrs of her injections at the vet? This is why I don't care much for Ivermectin, you have to scrub, sanitize, etc.. Would you be able to do another course of treatments, preferably given orally instead of injected?

Revolution says you can treat up to every 2 weeks as directed by vet. Obviously I'm not a vet, were the ones you found [mobile?] any good? It'd be nice if you could atleast discuss it with them, see what they say and have someone to go to just in case. I know a tube of Revolution has to be miles cheaper than another course of Ivermectin, so it's up to you as to which you can afford and which you want to try.

It's been a full week since her last Ivermectin dose, so it should be fairly safe for you to go with either solution. Again, if you can consult with a vet, I would definitely go over this with them. Even if they'll just tell you over the phone if it would be okay for her to do another course of treatment so soon, considering how close together she got dosed with Revolution and ivermectin.

 

[benzin.fox]

i will have to treat with revolution because i really can't afford anymore ivermectin from the vet.
-I was only doing usual scrub downs of the cage no extra special sanitising...i even asked the vet if i should be,they said i didnt need to.(yes,they really did! so i just went on as usual)

I'm going to give the cage a reworking, take out the wooden levels and replace them,freeze newspapers and use more material for the levels where i can. replacing the levels may have to wait a couple of weeks cause this poor student is seriously strapped for cash.

I'll wait to treat with revolution again until i've done all of this.

-also what should i be using to santise the cage to make sure the mites/eggs arent still clinging on?

oh oh and most of her fur has regrown from skin scraping, a lot of the bald patches in the photo arnt in the skin scrape area.

all i can do is take your advice and see what happens.

If i can't find the reason fro her itching should i have her on cortisone shots permanently or is this dangerous for her?
I'll talk to the vet.i had called them earlier this week to tell them she was still scabby and all i got was " you have to make another appointment for a consult" ...which i really can't afford this week! i know it's only $30...plus meds... but i dont see the point in that until i can give the cage a make over incase the mites are still there.

can't beleive she is still scabby. this is completely frustrating.im trying here!

-thank you SO MUCH for putting up with all of this!!

 

[user 78]

If you're going to treat with Revolution, you won't have to do the cleaning as often. What you do need to do is freeze the newspapers and wooden levels, and just give the whole cage a really good scrub down right after you've treated her. You don't have to remove the wooden levels completely, or change them out for a different sort. Just freeze them for now, and maybe freeze them periodically after that. You'll want to freeze any wooden toys or that they have, too, including stuff in their play area.

With Ivermectin you really do have to scrub the cage [bleach solution is suggested] and either toss or freeze all paper or wooden items every time she's dosed. Don't worry, plenty of vets have given off the wall information about all sorts of things.

So she does have a few bald patches? I'm gonna guess and say that's the power grooming. If it looks like someone's given her a freaky haircut, then that's most likely what it is.

As for using cortisone long term.. it's not highly suggested. It's a steroid, and those depress the immune system which can cause alot of problems for our little bubs. She would need to be on an antibiotic if you used cortisone long term. If you can pinpoint what may be causing the problem, then using the cortisone once in a while for relief of major symptoms would be perfectly fine. Since she was receiving the Ivermectin and Cortisone at the same time, we can't be 100% sure which one it was that was working. So if some good scrubbing and another dose of Revolution don't make the scabs less, then you may want to think about long term treatment like that. You could also try a hydrocortisone cream or ointment on the worse bits, see if that gives her a little relief. Just a tiny bit goes a long way, you don't want it caked on there since her roomies will groom it off eventually.

On another note.. If the Revolution doesn't work, try and get your hands on some Children's Benadryl or something like it. Any children's allergy medication containing diphenhydramine. It will do a similar job as cortisone would, much cheaper, and we have dosages for it. I've used it several times myself to rule out environmental irritants when abs just weren't doing it.