Rat Scabs.help?

[benzin.fox]

I have a bottle of neotopic from the vet. It was originally for a small scratch thing that was on my poodle's butt...

I just don't want to poison scab-eveive with it! might do some more reading!

 

[user 78]

You can call your vet, ask if the ointment is toxic if ingested, and ask if they thought it would be an okay thing to use on a rat. Honestly, looking at the ingredients of Neotopic, it's not that different from Neosporin and Polysporin.

 

[benzin.fox]

neotopic didnt do much for genevieve. all rats were at the vet today- audrey's myco again & marcelle became sick very suddenly today - puffed up,eyes half closed,sitting still (fatty was stil trying to get food though-yay) and wheezing but differently to audreys wheezing. At times she wouldhave her mouth open and making a squeeking/squeal kind of noise. vet just put them both on doxy for now - there arent any rat vets around here. i need help in locating one.

as for geneveive's skin they shaved her shoulder and did a skin-scraping, i forget what the vet said she has but he gave her an injection of ivermectin ( i think it was) and said she needs one next week and another the week after.

This vet bill left me with NO money. I'm struggling to afford everything and im scared that im not helping my rats.

-can someone help me/let me know about the ivermectin injections? i vaguely remember hearing that it isnt good for rats? or is that wrong?

And isnt ivermectin in frontline or one of those flea treatments?

im so frustrated right now. I have NO money at all left and my babies are still sick. I feel like im just giving money away and my girls are suffering. I dont like that vet and im not going to go back again but i dont know where to go- especially since i have no money.

any advice? I'm trying over here........

 

[user 78]

Selamectin, which is what is in Revolution, is the same thing as Ivermectin. While they are different medications, they do the exact same job. You're correct that ivermectin injections aren't the best option. They're expensive [generally], don't always work, and can cause a reaction at the injection site. Overall, not worth the hassle. Using Revolution, or using Ivermectin orally, is preferred. You already tried the Revolution, and didn't get any results, so I honestly still don't think it's parasitic. Also, for future reference, don't let them do a skin scraping, no matter who you wind up going to see. It's stressful for the rat, and 99% of the time it comes back with a false negative anyhow.

Baytril is really the medication of choice for URI's. Doxy is okay, but it's not as strong as Baytril, and is most often used along with Baytril. Sometimes the problem does clear up with just Doxy, but if this doesn't clear it up try and ask for Baytril.

I'm afraid I don't know Australia all that well, but it may help for you to make a new post, making sure to mention your location, and see if anyone else may now of a vet nearby to you.

 

[jorats]

Your vet was not wrong in giving the ivermectin injection. My vet has done this in the past but now I request to have it given orally. I would do the next two treatment. I've use Revolution in the past and it not work but yet Ivermectin did, so my suggestion to you would be to get the next two doses but ask for it to be given orally.
Before panicking, I would give doxy a try and like javakittie has mentioned, ask for Baytril if they don't improve within 5 days.

 

[benzin.fox]

-they did tell me she wasnt too happy about the skin scraping. poor girl.

ok i've chosen not to give anymore money to that vet- i'm going to go up the road to another and tell them about the ivermectin and tell them i'd like it orally instead. ( i dont like the vets there,i've had it with them..grr)

-and yes the injection was expensive (for me anyway $40 each time)

If neither rats improve after five days i'll be after the baytril. Usually I use both together when they're quite sick. vet didnt even offer it to me this time. he wasnt the rats regular.

-it was the false negatives of the skin scraping that made me hesitate to have one done -but went ahead anyway since i was there i guess. -The other rats arent scratching as ive noticed genevieve still is,wouldnt they have the same symptoms as her?. I really dont know why she's still scab-alicious. -this is why i need a good vet - and will now go find a place to post that im looking for one!

does anyone else feel this frustrated?
why dont most vets know about rats? GRR


ps- thank you again jorats & javakittie. making me feel not so without help over here!

 

[user 78]

If your other girls are showing signs of illness, but aren't scratching, I would bet good money it's not a parasite like mites or lice. Rats have naturally occurring mites on their bodies, but their grooming keeps the populations in check. When they become ill or stressed, they don't groom as often or as well and so the population gets out of control. This, by the way, is why skin scrapings often come back as a false negative. Anyhow, since your other girls are feeling poorly, I would think they would be itching by now if it was mites..

I still believe Genevieve is in with some domineering cagemates, and her scabalicious self is bearing the brunt of their overeagerness. Won't hurt her to try the Ivermectin orally, though.

The first vet I ever went to with my sweet 4mo old babies told me that rats don't live very long, and there was little point in doing anything about it. He also told me he couldn't understand why people got so over emotional about them when they got sick and died. Talk about a flip out.. When you do find a good vet, though, it makes having dealt with all those idgits worthwhile.

 

[benzin.fox]

-what a jerk of a vet!!!!!!!!!!!!

-so many of them are jerks and in it for the money. I have a great vet for my cats and dogs and another for our ferrets but none see meny rats so it's pretty stressful.

i think even if the ivermectin doesnt work at least i'll know i've tried,i guess it's as much for her scabbiness as it is for my peace of mind. I dont like the thought of not trying everything i can for her!

-yes the other definitely arent itchy and genevieve isnt sick,a few sneezes but not sickly.

my loving girls..awwww poor babies.

thanks for the reply - by the way how long did it take you to find your current vet?

 

[user 78]

Have you spoken to the vet you see for your ferrets? If they can't see the rats personally, they may know of someone who does see them. The people my vet sends her patients to see when she's unavailable is actually a ferret vet, but apparently he has some basic knowledge of rat care. Exotic pet care is such a small field, they tend to know who's all in the area and who may be worth your time.

I seriously lucked out and talked with a woman who runs a rescue here shortly after I got into rats. Maybe about 2-3mo after I got my first girls; She hooked me up with the vet who sees her rescues. She's a decent vet, and has great prices, but she's not much for hands on or for consultations. Mostly I do my research and go in to ask for certain meds or treatments, and she'll give her opinion. It's all a toss up. I don't think there will ever be The Perfect Vet, one with great prices, great medical practices, and a good table side manner. So you look at what you're able to get and choose whether or not it's something you can deal with. In my case, good table side manner and prices won out.

 

[jennifervb]

-what a jerk of a vet!!!!!!!!!!!!

-so many of them are jerks and in it for the money. I have a great vet for my cats and dogs and another for our ferrets but none see meny rats so it's pretty stressful.

i think even if the ivermectin doesnt work at least i'll know i've tried,i guess it's as much for her scabbiness as it is for my peace of mind. I dont like the thought of not trying everything i can for her!

-yes the other definitely arent itchy and genevieve isnt sick,a few sneezes but not sickly.

my loving girls..awwww poor babies.

thanks for the reply - by the way how long did it take you to find your current vet?

I agree with you that that vet is a jerk! What a moron! Unless a "vet" is accepting of ALL animals then he/she has no business being a vet. Perhaps someone should suggest that he take up working for McDonalds instead.

 

[benzin.fox]

ok so the vets around here are more hopeless than i thought. super un-helpful. -tell you what you want to hear if you have money if not they don't care.

anyway. thescabs didnt improve with the first injection i couldnt seem to convince the vet that the ivermectin orally would be as effecive. -not wanting to give up on my scabevieve i let him give her the injection.it didnt seem to phase her.
then he gave her a cortisone (spelling?) injection to stop her feeling so itchy.

Is that even good for rats? i dont even know. i feel like i'm at a dead end. couldnt convince anyone that giving her ivermectin orally was the way.

he thinks its sarcoptic mange and that its just not affecting the others.

i thought the revolution would have worked.

blah

 

[benzin.fox]

-oh and the resp. problems with the others are seeming much better. only a few wheezy sounds every now and again.

 

[jorats]

With computers, internet and even special forums for exotic vets, there's no reason a vet can't do a search and find what really needs to be done.
But the steroid shot is ok for rats and should help as well.

 

[Dahlas]

I gave my vet a rat health care book and told him about this site.
http://ratguide.com/health/
He seemed very pleased with the book and said he read over the site and found it very useful....He doesn't know a whole lot about rats but he is learning....
I also told him about our Rat Shack...

 

[user 78]

Offering things like a rat care book or suggesting RatGuide to them is only useful if the vet is willing to listen.. Which, by the sounds of it, this vet isn't. It's worth a shot, though, if you want to print out the information from RatGuide [where it suggests giving injectable Ivermectin orally] and take it in with you if you go back in.

Sarcoptic mange is really rather rare, and I don't think Scabevieve's symptoms really fit the bill..

Excerpt from RatGuide's Ecto-Parasite Article's description for Mites/mange :
Demodex spp., and Notoedres muris (a sarcoptid-like mite), both transmit mange. Deomodex spp. can be found anywhere on the skin but are primarily found on hair follicles and sebaceous glands of the ears. Notoedres muris (also termed the ear mange mite) burrows into skin, and presents as yellowish crusty appearing warts on edges of ears and nose, or can appear on other extremities as reddened bumps. Both of these are not often seen in the domestic pet rat.

and

In sarcoptid or sarcoptid like species crusted red or yellowish lesions may be seen on the auricle or pinna of the ear and on the nose; along with small reddish bumps to tail, genitals, and feet.

There's also some pictures of a rat with Sarcopetes Mange in Figure 2. Also, regardless of what sort of mite it may be, the Revolution and now the Ivermectin should have done *something* by now if that was the case.

 

[benzin.fox]

I agree with you all. I've been reading overthose articles for a week or more now.

it doesnt sound like s.mange at all.

what to do..

also i have noticed genevieve is pinning the other two girls down and acting(so i think) dominant over them.maybe there is a power struggle going on? most of the time they all just sleep together though. also geneveive ALWAYS win in food tugging wars.never,ever loses.-if that helps lol.

i dont know but still many face, neck and back scabs are present.

what would you guys do?

just leave it now? hmm

-and i have met a mobile vet from around here that has taken a rat book and has taken advice from a 'rat lady' i think he is going to be my next shot for scabeveive

 

[jorats]

Are the scabs long, curved or like pinpricks?

 

[Fidget]

I've been dealing with something which has caused mite-like scabs on my kids too. Mostly around the shoulders but a few extending to the face and further down the back at it's worst. (I also use newspaper). For the first time Ivermectin didn't help it and it was worsening. I had an ointment that was helping (oribiotic) but it ran out and vet couldn't get it anymore. I tried Polytopic, Polysporin, no help. I saw the vet again and got some Otomax ointment, but by then I'd already been bathing twice a week with 8in1 Perfect Coat Antibacterial Deoderizing shampoo I got in the dog section at the pet store, and then applying Polytopic or Endure surgical soap just on the owies. It was clearing it up really well.
So this led me to think it was a bacterial thing rather than mites.
I also was cleaning all their stuff with bleach (& rinsing well).

They cleared up... I recently found one or 2 owies on them again (you really have to check well to catch it early as they are so small) and I used the shampoo again and antibacterial ointment on the owies daily and it's cleared it up real fast.

I sure don't know that what is affecting your kids is the same as what I've had, but it's likely and if so I can tell you that the shampoo is what I think helped most.

 

[benzin.fox]

jorats- the scabs on the face are small round scabs larger than pin pricks though.definitely larger!

it is strange that you mention the curve because the other day i did notice a curved wound on her back between her shoulder blades.it didnt have a big scab on it but wasnt raw either. it looked like the skin had been rubbed raw and started to heal a little. that is the only curved wound i have noticed.
the others seem to be random shapes but mainly the same size. apart from the ones on the face which are much smaller.I wouldnt describe them as long though. they don't extend very far they're only a few millimeters long.(i guess on a rat looks rather large..)

-by the way something must be working i think it may be the cortisone injection. i havent noticed her itching -this must be giving her scabs a chance to actually heal because there havent been any new ones or old ones being re-opened since the injection. (horray she has some relief while i can keep consulting you guys!/try the new vet!)

-also i'm sorry if this seems repetitive and if i'm asking obvious questions.this is my first time with this kind of problem (duh) so i'm trying to get all the advice i can (from somewhere i can trust..which has been difficult!!)

so thank you again for all the replies. reeeally appreciate it.

-Fidget-
did you have to dilute the shampoo a lot for using it on the rats? I would be scared! i'm so glad it fixed the problem - it gives me hope!
i'm going to do the last ivermectin dose and see how that goes (dont think it will do anything) and then i'll decide which path to take from there. let me know the name of the shampoo you use please! it kind of reminds me of when my poodle had constantly itchy ears which a certain vet couldnt diagnose for more than a year (poor dog!!) then another vet diagnosed within 5mins.it was malassezia.she is a yeasty eared dog! are bacterial problems the same kind of thing as fungi and yeast problems at all? anyway the point is i just have to prevent her infections with a shampoo called 'malaseb' once a week and it kills the overgrowth of the yeast. If i could ever find something like that in rat form to treat whatever problem genevieve is having it would be the greatest. then i could just prevent it.

wow,you can tell i'm tired.rambling..

 

[jorats]

Don't ever apologize for asking questions, it's what makes us a good pet caregiver.

The shampoo probably helped in the healing for the wounds for Fidget's girl. And there certainly exists dermal irritations in rats either bacterial or fungi.
I would do the final ivermectin shot as well, you just never know... it might still be a very persistent bug. Don't forget to completely sterilize the rattie's home and play area. Another thing to remember, if only one rat has been treated, she will get the bugs again from the others if the others aren't treated.

The curve wound would be from another rat, from a scuffle, the pinpricks even if it's bigger comes from her own nails. The longer ones, like say 1 cm, that is most likely from a scuffle with another rat.