Ongoing discolored urine - He passed. <3

[violet976]

Well.. Merle is back to having visible blood in his urine and now much smaller urinations. He is still eagerly eating, getting around well and looks ok, but I can watch him do little body and tail twitches when he goes pee, and the pees are always very small now with red to them. I wont be able to get him to my trusted vet until probably Tuesday.

He is not currently on any meds as the vet believed his was a chronic condition that we would throw ab's at if the blood reappeared (the last visit he was having normal looking pees but his urine test still showed blood present). I'm not sure if I should try to start him on pain meds or ab's at this point, or simply wait until I can get him in and see how they vet wants to pursue it. I currently only have baytril, a small amount of doxy, and chlorpalm for abs. & childrens Ibu, rimadyl/carprofen, or endotorb for pain.

I also have vegan coconut yogurt and cranberry pills, but haven't gotten vitamin k yet for him.

I also read something about doing a culture to determine if a bacterial infection is present and, if so, to help determine which antibiotic will best treat it. Is that the next step I should be pursuing at this point? We've tried baytril/doxy and then baytril/clavamox without much success.

EDITED TO ADD: I also wanted to mention that both Merle and Minca now both have some pretty intense sneezing going on. Minca has not yet been treated since the vet said her lungs sounded good, but I had planned to bring both in and insist as there is no way this isn't an infection they both have. They both sneeze loudly and multiple times in a row every few minutes when they walk around, sometimes with vocal sneezes I could hear across the large room. My worry is that Merle *has* been treated with the baytril/doxy and baytril/clavamox, and not a dent was made in his sneezes. I'm beginning to worry that I might have a very resistant respiratory issue between them both and am not sure what to push for to kick it. I also worry that I have a new naked girl who was supposed to come home next weekend, and that she'll either end up having to stay until this is resolved or be treated alongside them...

 

[Godmother]

Have you tried Zithromycin? That worked like magic on three of my rats who had blood in their urine. The vet used the high end if the dose range.

 

[dspch911]

:cuddle: Hang in there something has to work. Poor Merle I hope they figure this out - it almost sounds like he has a blockage since so little it coming out. We have more sick ones too - it just seems never ending. Don't know yet on the immune tabs will let you guys know if I notice a change.

 

[violet976]

I have not tried zithro yet. Should I hold off on the ab's I have at home and push for that one next. I'm hoping I can get him in on Tuesday. If I'm holding off on the home abs, should I be giving him any of the infant Ibu, carprofen or endotorb for pain management?

He has had two x-rays, which showed a possibility of inflammation or a tumor but it was not conclusive. I assumed he was simply doing the small dribbles because it hurt to pee. I'm not sure how they would determine if there was an actual blockage. All I know for sure is that the blood has been present for over a month now and during that time he was able to do larger pees at times as well. Now I only see the smaller ones and they are definitely red.

 

[Godmother]

I'm not familiar with the third pain med, and I don't know what to think. Zithro is worth a try for sure, and it might be worth holding off the abs in case you need a culture.

 

[violet976]

Thanks Godmother. I hadn't thought of the effects the ab's might have on a culture, and I definitely think I'd like to have one done if it's possible. Any idea how they do a culture for urinary issues?

ETA: from what I looked up it's simply done off the urine sample. So... next question. How does one get a decent sized urine sample from a rat who is currently only doing smaller amounts of urine when he pees?

 

[Joanne]

Having had many bladder infections; frequent, small, bloody pees are common when it is active. It's pretty uncomfortable. The more he drinks, the better. Unfortunately it's hard to tell a rat to drink more...
I too would encourage you to try and get a culture so that you can find an antibiotic that will help him. (Assuming it's an infection.)

 

[Godmother]

Vets are usually skilled at getting a sample. The vet will press lightly over the bladder and have something (sterile swab?) to catch a drop or two.

 

[violet976]

Thanks for letting me know. I'll still try to get a sample before the appointment, but wont fret about it too much unless they tell me that I'll definitely need to bring it in. His pees are definitely small at this point. The ones I've seen are just a drop or so each.

 

[dspch911]

I learned from Finn, but him in a carrier and hope for the best, then syringe it up.

 

[Joanne]

As long as the carrier is clean first.....you don't want the wrong bug being cultured!

 

[violet976]

that's how I've been doing it. fully clean the bottom of his travel cage and wait eagerly with a syringe.

 

[Joanne]

that's how I've been doing it. fully clean the bottom of his travel cage and wait eagerly with a syringe.

Picturing this now... :giggle:

 

[violet976]

that's how I've been doing it. fully clean the bottom of his travel cage and wait eagerly with a syringe.

Picturing this now... :giggle:

& probably exactly as I look when we do this. I Merle stands there in the cage pan following me as I walk around, me telling me "c'mon Merle... just give me a pee and you can come out. Just go pee Merle..." The highlights of having a pet. :giggle: I'm going to call the vet today to see if they want me to attempt getting a sample for a culture, or if they'd rather do it themselves.

I've got both him and Minca booked for this afternoon. I'm wondering if perhaps a culture can be done on the respiratory issues as well. Is that easy to do? Are the results usually conclusive enough to be worth the trouble, or is it better to keep guessing at different abs? I'd really like to kick whatever these issues are in the quickest and most efficient manner at this point.

 

[violet976]

Just got back from the vet. While he will be put on more ab's, he preferred to try and get a urine sample from Merle to see if we can determine the best ab for him, and also wanted to do an ultrasound to see if a tumor might be present (since his last x-ray showed an area that was suspicious). So Merle will be dropped off tomorrow while I volunteer at the cat shelter and will hopefully give a clean sample before I'm done. The vet was planning on giving him sub-q fluids to help quicken the process.

Both rats will also be put on a long, strong dose of abs for the ongoing sneezing that wont seem to go away, to be decided after we see the results from tomorrows testing.

I was a bit dismayed to hear the vets opinion of whether I can bring my new girl (in quarantine) home this weekend. His opinion was that even with abs, if it's myco we're dealing with, we're mostly buying time and that even with a good treatment of my current two the new rat will most likely stand a good chance of picking it up as well. Obviously, I rescued the new girl to be part of their colony, and my thinking is that even if she didn't join this group, more than likely another of my rescues down the line will bring in another strain of myco and we'll simply begin again. I'd love other thoughts on this... how do you normally proceed if you suspect you have a bad strain of respiratory troubles in your current group but are wanting to still bring in new rats. Do you bring them in and medicate all? Bring them in and only medicate the new one if signs appear? I want what's best for them all but I do want them to have their third companion, already in her last week of quarantine at my mothers.

 

[Godmother]

Glad that your sweetie will get the works.

But as for the quarantined girl, I don't see a problem. Myco is endemic among rats, so she almost certainly has it in dormant form anyway. They get sick whe. The immune system is weakened by age or another issue.

 

[violet976]

yay! that makes me happy. I hate the thought of her being alone longer than she has to be. She needs her other furred ratties to keep her warm this time of year... and... she's just too darn cute to not come home.

 

[Joanne]

My only concern would be that your two sickies aren't feeling 100%, so may have a hard time with intros. I would wait until they are on the mend before starting the stress of intros.

 

[violet976]

Both of my current two look and act fine, they just both sneeze something terrible. Even Merle, despite many times seeing his body twitch and him struggle to get just some red drops of urine out, is still very much like himself and you wouldn't know anything was wrong with him. The sneezes simply *sound* nasty. They are very frequent, and sometimes audible enough that I cringe with each one. At Minca's worst, they have hiccupy vocal sounds like someone doing a cold commercial. But by all appearances and personality wise, you wouldn't think anything was wrong.

My only concern with intros at this point was whether it was wrong to bring the new one in before the other two were fully better, and my fear with that mindset was that at the moment, nothing seems to be putting a dent in Merles sneezes so that could take forever. & my neverending apprehension of intros, this time with a naked rat which does make me more nervous. I'm afraid Minca will give her a nasty bite and there will be no fur to protect her. Minca is a bit unpredictable with how she will choose to get along with other rats.

 

[Godmother]

Yes, you have a lot of factors to consider.