Mr. H, HED - One Tooth Down

[crumbilina]

bawww, what a hansome manrat! I remember Mr. Honeycomb (always loved the name haha) and Chance, I just couldn't remember who was who.

Hopefully, he won't notice any difference for a long long time. I guess we notice and dwell on it more then they do.

Give him a snuggle for me! I love squishy ratties that let you maul them :heart:.

 

[M0onkist]

Got to see Dr. Munn today - the Pips and Mr. H. had colds and I wanted to get the jump on it.

While we were there, Dr. Munn had a good look at Mr. Honeycomb's legs, checked the muscle mass etc. It's definitely HED, the muscles have started atrophying. Apparently I've caught it early (thanks to all your help!), but it's all fairly routine in terms of care - socks on the ramps, make sure water and food are within easy reach on all levels, check for plugs, all good stuff. He thinks it's neurological, rather than arthritic, so it's not something that can be helped by glucosamine (I did ask). If it had been arthritic, it definitely would have been a good thing to do.

Instead Dr. Munn suggested I put a drop or two of omega 3-6 fish oil on a treat, and let him eat it - it acts as an anti-inflammatory, so it should help some.

So everyone's back and happy, alternately eating or passed out (depending on the personality) - going to the vet is tough work!

 

[Moon]

Dr Munn is big on Omegas... safflower oil is one of the best sources of Omegas from what I've read, and salmon is the best fish based oil. It has something to do with the ratios of the Omegas 3-6-9

 

[M0onkist]

I have to get Tim to sit down and watch Mr. Honeycomb for a stretch of time, because I think he's actually doing a bit better. It took me a couple of days to get the omega pills (turned out we had some extra that hadn't quite agreed with me, apparently my body is picky about which fish oil it is), and I pricked the end and put a drop in with his meds, all of which were generously mixed with Ensure. He did stare at the new concoction, sniffed at it, then ate it all up.

So two days of this, and twice now I've found him climbing the sides of the cage when the girls were particularly excited and doing the same (medicine time, because my shoulder is totally screwed and I can't give them their meds individually in the travel cage on the floor, so I put the travel cage on top of the big cage and give it to them there). The girls are desperate to each have their turn eating all the yummy stuff - and twice now, I've almost had a heart attack seeing Mr. Honeycomb climb the side of the cage! He hadn't done that in quite a few weeks, which I'm taking to be a great sign.

So, moral of the story is, even the stinkiest fish oils are amply covered up by Ensure, and the omega 3-6 fatty acids do seem to help with neurological HED.

Stay tuned for more observations!

 

[M0onkist]

In eternal proof to how happy a man Mr. Honeycomb is, just now he was in the tiki hut when Cera decided to flip and pin him (a mystery of physics, as she's 240g and he's 550-something...). He wasn't thrilled with that (he'd been grooming) and after a few protest squeaks I called her off. So Mr. H. is lying there mostly on his side, and decides to make lemons out of lemonade: "oh, my foot! I should clean my back foot!"

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Did you try glucosamine as well or just the omega fatty acids?

Also what dose are you giving? I currently have a manrat who is starting HED so I started him on glucosamine but I would like to try this as well. It's great to read of his improvements.

 

[nancyp1106]

not to sound completely dumb, but what is HED?

No worries, I was about to ask the same question
I'm still rather new to being a rat mom...but learning so much here

 

[crumbilina]

In eternal proof to how happy a man Mr. Honeycomb is, just now he was in the tiki hut when Cera decided to flip and pin him (a mystery of physics, as she's 240g and he's 550-something...). He wasn't thrilled with that (he'd been grooming) and after a few protest squeaks I called her off. So Mr. H. is lying there mostly on his side, and decides to make lemons out of lemonade: "oh, my foot! I should clean my back foot!"

hehehe silly Mr. H

 

[M0onkist]

I talked to Dr. Munn about the glucosamine, Smilez, and in Mr. Honeycomb's case he felt the HED was caused by a degeneration of nerves, rather than arthritis. The glucosamine helps arthritis, whereas the omega 3-6 fish oil (or safflower oil) is a general anti-inflammatory, and more likely to help with neurological stuff.

As for dosing, I imagine usually these fish oil capsules come in gel capsules with liquid inside - mine do, anyway. I pricked the tip of the capsule with a seam ripper (although any type of needle or pin would work too), and just let a drop fall into the dish, then covered it up with Ensure. He sniffed it a bit before eating, but honestly didn't seem to have any issues with the addition of the flavor - and hasn't had any problems taking it again, so it didn't make him feel ill (rats are particular that way, if they eat something that makes them feel poorly, they won't touch it again).

And don't worry, Nancy, we're all still in the process of learning - even those who've had rats for a decade! Mr. H. is the first rat I've had to get hind end degeneration, so I'm on a learning curve too.

 

[crumbilina]

He sniffed it a bit before eating, but honestly didn't seem to have any issues with the addition of the flavor - and hasn't had any problems taking it again, so it didn't make him feel ill (rats are particular that way, if they eat something that makes them feel poorly, they won't touch it again).

I find this point so amazing! Its like humans! I was reading too that if they eat food and it makes them feel bad even 6 hours afterward, they will associate that with the food and then never eat the food again... they are one of the new animals that do this!
Sorry, a bit off topic, but I find it so nifty!

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Hmm now I'm curious. Did you feel the muscle spasms in Mr. H's back legs or do you know what led Dr. Munn to decide it was in the nerves rather than arthritis?

 

[M0onkist]

I'd felt the muscle spasms a month before going in to Dr. Munn - I'd first noticed an odd tiny little tremor in one of his feet, then Shelagh told me where to feel his legs to feel any tremor, and there it was.

He's got some atrophying of the muscles back there now, and he waddles a lot more to get around, but he's cheerful at least!

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Sounds to me like I should be trying omega 3,6 fatty acids with my boy. Thanks for posting!

 

[M0onkist]

So, life is moving on.

Haven't announced this yet but Tim and I have broken up. Very first night I brought the ratties to the house, where my Mom and Dad are really really welcoming (Mom's got all these plans to install a chair down there so I can spend dedicated time with them). The CN came the following day, and now I no longer get the stink-eye with them being in the travel cage, lol

Ducky's adjusting pretty well to having no Tim - she's really attached to Mr. Honeycomb now (she and Mr. H. shared one of the two travel cages because she loves to laze around with him, and doesn't go all hyper).

Aaaand of course there's a point to this post, which is I've noticed since I moved back home Mr. H's HED has gotten worse - he has more trouble turning around on one spot (like when he's in my arms), and winds up sleeping with both hind legs to one side or the other. I think one side is weaker, but I have to watch him more to be sure which one. Can stress do that? I presume it can, since he's also sneezing a bit more (change of environment I know can do that, but the air's a lot cleaner here, so I think it's just adjustment, but I have the meds on standby).

Oh, and an addendum: emotionally I'm okay, just so y'all know.

 

[Joanne]

Just read the thread through for the first time - I do think that mental attitude has a big influence on our physical well-being. So Mr. H could very well be affected by the change. Hopefully things will settle down and he will rebound a bit. If he was really bonded to Tim, then he may 'mourn' his loss like he did his buddy.
Sorry to hear about the break-up. Sometimes change is a necessary thing...

 

[jorats]

I'd give Mr. H sometime to settle in and get used to his new routine. Then wait and see if he's indeed worse.

 

[M0onkist]

Both Ducky and Mr. H. loved Tim (well, they all liked him) - Ducky was over the moons for him though. She seems to have adjusted very well, doesn't seem to be in mourning.

I think Mr. H. is indeed getting used to the new routine, but his spirits don't seem particularly downtrodden or anything.

 

[crumbilina]

How is Mr. H doing?

 

[M0onkist]

Doing great - he seems to be perfectly back to where he'd been before in terms of HED progression.

He's very happy - they all are, to be honest. They love the extra people (well, my sister, Mom and Dad). Yesterday I went down to the basement to give them some carrots, and found Dad down there petting the Pips. So I gave him the carrots to give to each of them, and then to Mr. H - I've NEVER seen that lazy smeezer lump move so fast to seize the carrot from Dad and retreat into his mansion! 'OHI'lltakeTHATgoodbye!!<crunchcrunch>'

 

[crumbilina]

lol awwwwww!

Yay!
Its funny that your dad gave in! I laughed my butt off when I caught my dad sticking his fingers in Cocoas cage and talking to her!

Glad things are going well