Intros

[jorats]

The fact that Caramel was completely submissive and didn't try to run the hell out of there is a very good sign.
That's when the big cuts and gashes happen...when the omega tries to run when under the alpha. But if they don't run, that's good!

 

[Godmother]

Whew! This intro is hard for me because Caramel is so scared. I feel mean making her go through it, but she needs to be with others so badly. The others pose no danger to her.

Last night I had a great intro between her and the four new sisters. It went really well. The four sisters are very friendly, relaxed and well socialized. There was no puffing or sidling, just some sniffing. Caramel was scared at first, but she only squeaked once. After half an hour she even ate some of the food.

I feel optimistic now. Tonight we will do an intro with Caramel, Julia, and the four sisters all at once. I think that they will be a nice little colony in very short order.... I want to see them in their new CN soon. I'll be putting it up today, so that it will be ready when they are.

 

[abazoo]

Okay Madalynn is 2 months old today... and she's been here 2 weeks. The big girls(three ages 6 m/o, one age 15m/o, one 34m/o) had no idea she existed but I suspect she knew because she's been in areas where theyve been previously. Well today I let the big girls free roam in my(and her) room for the first time in 2weeks while I cleaned their cage... They were super happy and climbing all over me when I got to visit with them. Madalynn was just resting on the shelf of her cage on the window sill... I decided nows as good as time as any to see if they wanted to meet, and let Madalynn come out on my hand. Then Miley wanted in my arms too and they were both on me and climbing on each other and sniffing. Then I let Miley down and Madalynn got on the bed too. She ran around for a sec. and the big girls noticed her and sniffed around and Madalynn started "defending" herself before they really even did anything! She mounted Casey right off the bat and Casey ran away and she boxed Sophie for a sec. but Sophie just stared at her and she mounted Riley but she bucked her off real quick.

Then they ran around a bit without squabbles and they climbed on me (including Madalynn, even tho she has been slow to climb on me from the bed herself, I think she got confindent today- or jellious!) and they shared soy milk. Then Madalynn started staring Riley in the face and she stood up to box and Riley flipped her really quick! and I think nipped at her while holding her down in a quick motion since I heard Madalynn yip. Then the little one ran behind the pillows and peeked out looking for me :sad3: I let her on my hand and petted her a sec to be sure she wasn't scared out of her mind, but I decided playtime was over for her so I put my hand in the cage for her to climb in like I always do... but she just walked on the open door and turned herself around trying to figure a way to get down to the bed again!

Now I want to mention, I supected Madalynn would be able to stand up for herself if she needed to and I've kinda preped her for it by hand wreasling. She's crazy about it and it was her idea, but I played along too. She is only nearly half their size now, but I've heard 2 months is a fair age to try intros.. but this is only my first time with a QT like time before intros.. Madalynn is also the youngest rat I've ever owned. :heart:
I'm hoping to try and continue intros this week and posiably make enough progress to try sharing the CN by the 24th (after I clean it again and such of course...) Kind of a time limit, but I won't push them if theyre not ready!

 

[jorats]

I would say that was an excellent intro. The boxing, mounting, flipping, those can also be part of playing. :thumbup:

 

[abazoo]

Intro today wasn't quite as nice... I bought the big girls in my room again and they played a bit then Madalynn wanted out of her cage too... She got on the bed and they all noticed each other but no reactions.. Madalynn sniffed Riley they were fine all ate babyfood together.. that was for maybe 5 min... Then Madalynn was climbing on me and Sophie and Riley climbed on too... then the mood all changed.. The big girls got puffy and started huffing anic: I put the big girls down and they were still puffy! So I put Madalynn in her cage. The two girls got on the floor after that, so I let Madalynn out again.. A little while later Sophie was on the bed again and spoted her and started chasing Madalynn and sideways pushing her.. Madalynn was trying to stay away from her but they were cirlcing around the pillow and met each other and the fought as I ran to pull it off of them so I could watch... I know I'm not suppose to pull them apart unless it gets too too rough or turns into a bully thing.. So I was just observing and offering a safe haven if one of them wanted to get away... Is that okay?

Right now I've got Madalynn out on the bed and the big girls are mostly limited to the floor. Riley did find a way up a while ago and tuffled a bit then she got down again... Now Sophie's up here next to me on the bed... Madalynn is on my shoulder but keeps going down to mess with Sophie and then running back up.. Sophie hasn't run after her yet oddly!

Hindsight I think the intro took a bad turn because I forgot to change my shirt after playing with Madalynn ealier.. and it had pee on it :doh: I think we'll try a different room next time tho just incase its a territory thing :roll:

 

[jorats]

Is that area a usual play area for the bigger girls? if so, you really need to find a neutral place where the big girls have never been and they need to be with Madalynn more...

 

[abazoo]

and they need to be with Madalynn more...

Ah, thanks for that... I moved Madalynn's cage down to their room yesterday morning and just didn't bother them or take either of them out yesterday...At first the big girls paced the bars of their CN and digged at the liners and Sophie huffed.. but that eased after 5-10 min then they went back to bed.
When they had another intro this morning, I put a new sheet on the bed that's in their room (not a usual play place) and put them on the bed at the same time... It went so smooth! They were playing and following each other nicely.. no agression, defensiveness or chasing this time :joy:

 

[jorats]

Excellent!

 

[arresai]

Okay, so I've been trying to intro Dobby and things are still not going well. Dobby has another cut in nearly the same place but not as bad. This time I was right there and was able to stop things before they got too bloody. It's not like Remi is being overly aggressive he's just trying to assert his alpha male position but Dobby is still so timid that he freaks out and gets cut. Will I ever be able to have all my boys in the same cage? What am I doing wrong? Help!

 

[jorats]

I'll need a recap... who's living with who and anyone neutered?

 

[arresai]

Sorry, Dobby is my dumbo rex and my other boys are Remi and Dexter. None are neutered as of yet.
I can'y seem to post pics so, I'll try a link:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14249

 

[jorats]

I'll reply in your other thread so I can keep it straight. :wink2:

 

[abazoo]

We did intros last night for my newcomer who just came a few day ago... most everyone was wonderful I moved the new girl(6m/o) Alison's cage down stairs the night before to infront of the CN and everyone was still fine. So intros could begin I put a fresh sheet on my bros bed a bowl of babyfood and a simple pillow and then let Max (35m/o) and Casey(16m/o) come out at the same time I let Alison out of her cage and onto the bed. They licked at the food for a sec. and greeted each other... everything was friendly even after 5-10 mins.. But they weren't the ones I was worried about anyway, it was the three 6m/o sisters! Sophie and Riley were in the cage fighting and Miley was in her house alone just peeking out, so I let her come out next... Everyone greeted each other again and it was fine 5 mins later, there was no more fighting between Riley and Sophie but Sophie had been acting aggessive the whole time! I think she was the instagater of the rumbles, so I let Riley come out yada yada they greeted each other and groomed each other.

Meanwhile Sophie was in the cage still climbing the bars, jumping around, throwing toys, digging at the liners running real fast on the wheel and staring over at us while she bobed side to side trying to see better.... The girl is aggressively obsessive! There was no way she was going to meet Alison! I don't know what to do either anic: I put the big girls back in the CN while Alison was still on the bed and I let Sophie come into my hands(since she pretty much darted into them!) but she was fighting to find a way over to the bed(which I had already taken another step back from!) I was peting her thinking maybe she'll see me more as alpha, but idk if that actully is a good idea at all. Aha, help.

 

[jorats]

She needs to meet Allison.
All the craziness she does in the cage is not aggression, but pent up energy, excitement and stress. If she was aggressive, she would sit in a corner at the bars huff, puff and spit...

Do the three girls live with Max and Casey as well? If so, I'd have them all out at the same time to meet Allison.

 

[abazoo]

I guess that makes sence, but I was scared of her myself :shock: I'll see what we can do today tho. Yes the five girls all live together. Thanks

 

[blytherue]

Ok. None of my boys are neutered yet. Iliaster & Panache have been together since birth (which was july 30th) and it seems like neither of them is alpha. They both try to pin each other, neither wins every time, they both groom each other, and have never drawn blood on each other. Grady just came from a girl on craigslist. He has been alone since she got him from petsmart a few months ago. He looks to be a little older than my other two since he's a little bit bigger.
At first Grady just wanted to hide from the other two, who just wanted to sniff him all over. Iliaster was more persistent in following Grady around, which I guess is why they got into fights. The first couple bouts didn't seem any worse than what Ili & Pan get into, although Grady is very vocal, which freaked me out a little. But the other night I noticed some blood on Ili's fur, though I couldn't find the wound and it wasn't actively bleeding, so I guess it wasn't too bad, but it still made me nervous.
The next night when Ili would follow Grady until he turned around and they did the pre-wrestle staredown, Panache would get in front of Iliaster and stand up to box with Grady. "No one beats up on my brother but me!" So they would box, Grady would run away, Ili would follow, rinse, repeat.
And last night, their behaviour has further changed where Iliaster and Panache will now approach Grady from the front and lay down in front of him with their heads in front of his. I think they are asking to be groomed? Does this mean they recognize him as alpha? Grady doesn't seem to get it though and he just tries to bite them! So far there hasn't been any more blood, but his teeth sure make me nervous. Should I keep going? Will Grady understand ever and stop using his teeth?
(He is a prolific chewer! I gave him two hammocks and he didn't chew the hammocks up so much as just chew where they are attached to the cage so they fell down. :wallbang: )

 

[jorats]

Your boys are only 3 months old? That's still young for them to be establishing alpha. But it can happen, I've seen is a couple of times that young. When your boys go put their heads under Grady's, they are asking to be groomed, they are alpha to him.
They are asking him for respect and he has no idea what he's suppose to do.
Are all 3 living together? If so, I'd say let them work it out.

 

[blytherue]

not yet, grady is by himself at the moment. i'm hoping to have them all together eventually. so both ili & pan think they are alpha? interesting... ok i will continue & hopefully they will all figure it out.

 

[jorats]

It's not as much as they think they are alpha, they are probably too young for that yet but they know they own their environment and he's the new kid on the block.

 

[Moon]

Keep in mind that in animal groups there is rarely one alpha with the rest being complete subordinates. There are hierarchy tiers, so an animal that's not alpha can have a higher stance than some other animals.

Ili and Pan may not have worked out who is Alpha between the two of them yet, but that doesn't mean they don't think that they are both "above" Grady, so to speak, as he's the new guy.

ETA: What Jo said. LOL