Intros

[Kayla]

After a week of daily proper re-introductions (without incident) with a daddy rat and his baby six week old boys, is it safe to procede with them moving back in together?

 

[ClownCarOnFire]

Oh my goodness! Thanks so much!

Could this mean Leonard may really be able to have a buddy someday? 8D!

 

[jorats]

After a week of daily proper re-introductions (without incident) with a daddy rat and his baby six week old boys, is it safe to procede with them moving back in together?

Make sure to do a full scrub down of the cage first... and also, making sure the cage is big enough for dad and boys too.

 

[jorats]

Oh my goodness! Thanks so much!

Could this mean Leonard may really be able to have a buddy someday? 8D!

Sometimes they just need a break or more time spent away from each other, always keep trying though. :nod:

 

[Kayla]

After a week of daily proper re-introductions (without incident) with a daddy rat and his baby six week old boys, is it safe to procede with them moving back in together?

Make sure to do a full scrub down of the cage first... and also, making sure the cage is big enough for dad and boys too.

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure no one has had a terribly bad experience with this. :wink2: (Daddy is soo big and the babies are soo small.)

 

[sausage4ever]

Today we did intros yet again and we had an incident. I introduced the Alpharats (Alvin, Buford, Caillou, and Davey) to Gaston and Hugo to Luna and to Marcel. The issue is Marcel likes to throw his weight around and has been bossing everyone around all day. I figured he'd get better because there was no blood but I went to the movies tonight and when I came home Caillou has a gash in his side (just like he did to Eli). I intro'ed them after baths into the brand new FN. I will see if I can't dominance pinch Marcel tomorrow but I don't really want to keep Calliou away from the others for so long. I'm goin to keep him in the bottom with Davey, Gaston and Hugo and leave Buford, Alvin and Luna with Marcel. Does anyone no if this will work or will Marcel need to be seperated from the rest?

 

[SQ]

You did the cage next to cage stage, the neutral intros stage, the intros in a nonneutral place stage, and then scrubbed out the cage, rearranged things and put them together in the large cage and watched them for about 12 hours?

Not knowing all the background, I'd go back a step to nonneutral intros or neutral intros and do them awhile longer.
The rats need to establish their heirachy but if Marcel purposely hurts the others you may need to consider a neuter ... assuming he isn't already neutered.

 

[sausage4ever]

I didn't do any of cages side by side as I was working with four cages one of which was three feet high. I used the FN as it was brand new. And then I watched for about ten hours. I found a solution for now...I locked Marcel in his transport cage overnight inside of the FN and guess what nobody is dead or cut up this morn.

I think I just adopted an aggressor. I'm going to call the shelter about maybe adopting the other two ratties that are at the shelter as I have to go back to Stratford again tonight. I don't really want to give up my dream rat but if he's attacking everybody else he'll have to go. I can't afford any neuters right now (what with alll the other rescues who need me).

I'm going to let him out for out-time with the others and see how he does. If I can see he is clearly a big meanie then I'll call the shelter but if he can be worked with then that's what I'll do.

I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[SQ]

Intros can take time and have gradual steps.
Instead of cages side by side, you can swap dirty cloths from one cage to another.

a big meanie

I don't think so!!
If you did gradual intros over time waiting for rats to be ok at each step before moving to the next, he could just be trying to assert his position as alpha, and accidently hurt another rat. Or he may need more time at the previous step.

If you didn't go through all the steps slow enough for him, then he could just be a frightened boy trying to protect himself.

 

[Moon]

He may not be a big meanie, but many intros take months to happen. You are expecting miracles.

You can't afford a neuter so therefore you'll adopt two more boys? What if THEY can't be introed?

 

[sausage4ever]

Thanks SQ for the tip I never thought of that.

Today's going really well (no fights at all today). And I was very mistaken he's not a big meanie, he's big scaredy cat who can throw his weight around. I wasn't expecting miracles I just thought my idea would work out better (in fact I was quite happy with the results). I know boy intro's can be messy and I took a step back today, to help Marcel feel more secure. I'll keep doing this for the next little while.

I thought about the prospect of bringing extra males in; it would be quite stupid and thus not an option.

 

[minuke99]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but there is a youtube video that seems pretty helpful about rat introductions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZk8JOQj5mY

 

[brittanyfork]

A friend of mine is moving away and her Lucy needs a home.
So I'm taking her, but shes never been around another rat in a long time.

Thankfully I'm getting an extra cage, because I'm bringing Luna and her babies home soon.

These intro's are gonna have to go very slow me thinks

 

[maria-mar]

Saturday i'll be picking two little boy brothers, one month old ^_^
I'll be trying to introduce them to my other two boy brothers, who are now about five months old.
The intros will be done slowly and following the steps, but i'd still like to ask all of you for help trying to figure out something...

I never had any problems with the two boys living together, but they never lived with other ratties before, so i dunno if i should skip the "scary place" part or not. There doesn't seem to be a "boss" in the cage yet, or if there is, i can't figure it out.
Button is timid one, but he's also the one who stays on top more often when they play.
Fivela is the kisser one. He also stays on top sometimes, and when he does, he really grooms Button a lot more than Button does to him. They never tried to mount each other, they just fight for fun or jump around chasing each other.

I forgot to tell, i had two one month old babies at home before just for the night, and my boys were really sweet, when i let them close all they wanted to do was groom the babies. Could it be different now that they're just a bit older, but at a critique stage (i guess the 5/6 month old is an important phase, right)?

Also, do i start the intros now but only put them in the same cage when the kids are older?
Or do i wait until they are two months old even for the meeting each other part?

 

[jorats]

Saturday i'll be picking two little boy brothers, one month old ^_^
I'll be trying to introduce them to my other two boy brothers, who are now about five months old.
The intros will be done slowly and following the steps, but i'd still like to ask all of you for help trying to figure out something...

I never had any problems with the two boys living together, but they never lived with other ratties before, so i dunno if i should skip the "scary place" part or not. There doesn't seem to be a "boss" in the cage yet, or if there is, i can't figure it out.
Button is timid one, but he's also the one who stays on top more often when they play.
Fivela is the kisser one. He also stays on top sometimes, and when he does, he really grooms Button a lot more than Button does to him. They never tried to mount each other, they just fight for fun or jump around chasing each other.

I forgot to tell, i had two one month old babies at home before just for the night, and my boys were really sweet, when i let them close all they wanted to do was groom the babies. Could it be different now that they're just a bit older, but at a critique stage (i guess the 5/6 month old is an important phase, right)?

Also, do i start the intros now but only put them in the same cage when the kids are older?
Or do i wait until they are two months old even for the meeting each other part?

A lot of the intros are hit or miss and also, no one way is the only way to do intros. Moms and dads know their rats best and so have a feeling on what part they need to work on like longer neutral or no neutral ground at all.
It sounds like your boys are sweet. Not all rats become bullies at that magical hormonal age. I've got 11 rats at 4.5 months old and they are good boys during their intros.
Start by having the cages next to each other to see how your older boys react. If they start poofing up or hissing, then you need to wait for the babies to be a couple months old before you intro. But if they are simply curious and want to see them, then you probably can start asap.
We'll be here to help you every step of the way. :thumbup:

 

[maria-mar]

Thanks for the quick answer!...
I'll do that ^_^

One more thing, please, just because i'm curious :giggle:
When they play a little, then stop and the top one grooms the other, is he being dominant? Or is it just like chimps do, a way to tight up their ties? Or both maybe?

 

[jorats]

Thanks for the quick answer!...
I'll do that ^_^

One more thing, please, just because i'm curious :giggle:
When they play a little, then stop and the top one grooms the other, is he being dominant? Or is it just like chimps do, a way to tight up their ties? Or both maybe?

I don't think grooming when part of playing has anything to do with dominance. I've noticed that when grooming is involved, the alpha puts his head under the beta or omegas like he demands grooming. But when newbies are around, the alpha will rise and put himself over their heads/necks/back. They might then do a hard groom. That's not really a good sign and usually causes fear or anxiety by the guy being challenged.

 

[maria-mar]

Thanks for the info

 

[Godmother]

I did an interesting intro tonight, between Julia and Caramel. Both had been lone rats living in very small hamster cages, both have now been spayed. Caramel is extremely timid, so I thought that I would start with just the two of them and add the four sisters later. (two of the sisters just got spayed today, so they need a few days to recover)

Caramel's fear comes partly from her only experience, since her pet store days, with another rat. The people that bought her were hoping she'd be a friend for their other rat whose cagemate had died. They did not know about intros, and the other rat attacked Caramel as they put her into the cage.

Anyway, tonight was interesting. I thought it was going to be a disaster because Julia went right over to Caramel and suddenly there was shrieking. I threw a towel over them and took a look.... no blood. Neither of them had puffed up or boxed or sidled or flipped each other.

Turns out that poor Caramel is so scared that she is a squealer; she shrieked even though I don't think Julia was doing her any harm. My hubby was alarmed and thought I should call it quits, but I am determined to get these two lonely girls together asap.... and there was no blood.

So I kept on for the full hour. Julia was at ease, so she ate all the yogurt. For the first while, Caramel stood in one corner, keeping very still. But occasionally she would get curious and go over to sniff Julia. On two occasions Julia straddled Caramel and walked over her (I saw a few drops of pee the second time), so I think that Julia was marking Caramel. Julia seemed to accept Caramel as part of the furniture afterwards. there was some more squealing, but each time it was less intense. Caramel never did eat anything, but she groomed herself a few times. Julia tried repeatedly to get out, but I kept returning her to the tub.

At one point I did put a semi-covered litter box (which I use as a rat transporter) in the tub. This actually helped, because Caramel felt safer in there. By the end of the hour, both rats were in there together. Caramel was sitting still, and Julia was grooming herself.

So I think it was a great success. I've been exchanging cloths for a while, so it is time to get on with it and get those girls together. I will repeat the exercise tomorrow.

 

[Godmother]

Jorats said

when newbies are around, the alpha will rise and put himself over their heads/necks/back. They might then do a hard groom. That's not really a good sign and usually causes fear or anxiety by the guy being challenged

Uh-oh. That sounds a lot like what happed last night, when Julia straddled Caramel and walked over her from head to tail. Caramel was totally submissive throughout this. Caramel is afraid and totally ignorant of ratty etiquette, so she might need to interact with a socially-adept ratty girl. I don't want to traumatize her.

If this was not as good an intro as I'd thought, should I do Caramel's intros first with the rats who are well socialized (before finishing the intro with Julia)? The four sisters i adopted recently are very socialized with people and other rats. The alpha among them knew exactly what to do when the second pair of sisters arrived on Monday; she immediately flipped and pinned the one who challenged her, and the process was very quick. There was no aggression.