Hematuria ...caused by enterococcus faecalis.

[LA]

One thing I did want to mention. Hazel started some poor breathing again about a couple of weeks ago. We decided to go the route of echineacha. We are giving all of them 5 drops once a day. Within three days of starting this, the noise in Hazel went away. She had had for a week. She still doesn't have it so after some reading and realizing that it's also good for overall health and for improving antibodies in rats, I am going to continue on with it. 2 weeks on 1 week off. Now from what I read it doesn't totally take away the need for antibiotics, but reduces the need. Which is good enough for me.

So Jo would you nebulize with baytril only?

 

[Vanessa]

I agree with every one's concerns over antibiotics, and I am a big fan of more homeopathic remedies. However, I have a different outlook with the rats for a number of reasons.

1. The spread of antibiotic resistant rats are breeders fault, not your average rat owner. If my guys become antibiotic resistant, it is for me to deal with only. I am not breeding rats, so nobody will be paying the price for my mistakes. I am careful to properly medicate and follow the instructions for all treatments and medications and have never encountered a really resistant rat - only rats that have just become too severe to be saved. There is a difference between antibiotic resistant and just too far gone to be saved by anything.
2. I have tried more 'unconventional' treatments on the rats and have had almost 0% success. I don't have enough knowledge, and although I followed the instructions of more knowledgeable people, I could not be fooling around and having a 'lets try this and see if it works' attitude because they would have died. I think that preventative options are a better way to go because they get too sick too fast.
3. Humans are much better to test homeopathic treatments on because we live far longer than 2 - 3 years and it sometimes takes months to get the treatments working to their ideal results. Rats just don't give us enough time. Maybe cats and dogs have better success rates because of their longer lifespans, but I don't think rats are ideal to take that route because of their short lives.
4. I have had lots of success with pulse treatments, and they have extended the lives of my rats a lot longer than they would have if they were just on regular treatments.

It really all boils down to their lifespans, we are limited to the treatment options that we have with them.

 

[jorats]

I'm thinking of asking my vet for Gentamicin. I'll have to talk to my vet about that.

 

[lilspaz68]

I'm thinking of asking my vet for Gentamicin. I'll have to talk to my vet about that.

Gentocin is only injectable which is great for nebulizing but do you think your vet would also teach you how to sub-q? It is really invaluable, even if only fluids for a dehydrated rat.

 

[Dahlas]

I agree with Vanessa's post. With such a short life span and the way these little guys get so sick so fast....you have to be very fast and sometimes agressive in your treatment......
I use many "other" more natural treatments for my family and other pets....but so far have not seen a lot of proof that those work with rats.....

 

[jorats]

do you think your vet would also teach you how to sub-q? It is really invaluable, even if only fluids for a dehydrated rat.

I could ask her but I'm sure she will be totally against it. :roll:

 

[lilspaz68]

do you think your vet would also teach you how to sub-q? It is really invaluable, even if only fluids for a dehydrated rat.

I could ask her but I'm sure she will be totally against it. :roll:

that is too bad :sad3: ...for getting meds into the body fastest it ranks, Injection, Nebulizing, then Oral...

 

[LA]

What is sub-q?

 

[Alicemcmallis]

Sub-q (or sub cue) is short for subcutaneous, which is giving an injection under the skin. There is also IM - intramuscular, giving an injection in the muscle, and IV - intravenous, an injection in the vein.

 

[Alicemcmallis]

I thought gentacin could also be given orally? Injectible baytril can be given orally...

 

[lilspaz68]

Dr Munn told me that injectable would do organ damage if given orally

Kidneys maybe? from ratguide.com
It is widely distributed in extracellular fluid and does not penetrate ocular tissue, nor readily cross the blood-brain barrier. The drug tends to accumulate in the kidneys, and the inner ear, explaining the reason for nephro and ototoxicity..

I do see that there is an oral solution but I have never heard of anyone using it so maybe its rare?

http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_ ... ulfate.php

 

[LA]

Ahhh sub-q is what my vet did to Hazel when she was dehydrated. Looks like the rat has a tumor on them until it's absorbed.

 

[jorats]

Ahhh sub-q is what my vet did to Hazel when she was dehydrated. Looks like the rat has a tumor on them until it's absorbed.

Yikes! My vet did this to Treat... he didn't look like he had a tumour but he did look "full".

 

[lilspaz68]

I have sub-q'd fluids, and the fluid sits under the skin in a bubble until it absorbs in. A very small tumour I guess...hehehe.

 

[Fidget]

I had a vet that wouldn't prescribe doxy but sold me a bag of Ringer's Lactate and needles and told me to do Sub-Q every day??? Quite a difference between vets, eh?

An aside - I was afraid to do it so my sister the ER nurse did it. 2nd day she was at work so I took Starlit there and we bypassed all these humans sitting waiting god-knows how long in emergency and went to the back where Starlit got her Ringer's shot. I just thought it was so cool that all the times rats get experimented on and abused for humans benefit this was one time that the humans sat there while a rattie got it's need put first :nod:

 

[mamarat]

I totally enjoyed that, Fidget. :joy:

 

[MumsyRat]

I totally enjoyed that, Fidget. :joy:

Me too!


When I asked my vet about sub-q's she said there was no way in the world that someone who wasn't trained could do it at home. She insisted that it could only be done at the clinic, for a mere $200/day hospitalization fee. :?

 

[Fidget]

Gah! I still have the bill from Aug 27/03 - $14.31 for baytril, $16.00 for 1 litre Ringers, $1.96 for 7 syringes. And this was only the 2nd time I saw that vet and for the same girl.
So no doubt anyone with the smarts to figure out med dosages could be taught to do it if the vet wanted to show them :gaah:

 

[Dewi]

Gentamicin can cause ear and kidney damage in people and rats. I personally would only nebulise this antibiotic for rats.

 

[Dewi]

When I asked my vet about sub-q's she said there was no way in the world that someone who wasn't trained could do it at home. She insisted that it could only be done at the clinic, for a mere $200/day hospitalization fee. :?

Your vet is a very schrewed business woman. :roll:
My vets, over the years, have taught me how to give SQ and/ or IM injections on a few of my animals (not just the rats).