Crass's tumor removal - Update: Sewn back up

[lilspaz68]

95% sounds about right...she may have needed only a cursory feel to know how attached it was...its really not rocket science...my vet wouldn't take long either.

 

[Joanne]

It's a difficult decision for sure. One thing you have to remember though is animals with four legs get along pretty well with only three. She will adapt to only having three if it comes to that. She'll figure out ways to prop her food to hold it with only one hand, and you can feed her soft things too to make sure she's getting enough nutrition.
Surgery is a gamble, but if I had to choose between losing my rat after a few months because of a tumor, or having the surgery and having her with me another year with a disability, I'd chose the surgery. There is always a chance that she could die during the surgery too. There's always a risk.
Whatever decision you make is the right decision for you and your rattie. We know how you feel ........

 

[Spork]

I think I'm going to go to another vet, I really didn't feel comfortable with the experience level at the second vet.

 

[Spork]

So, the same day that I started this thread, I also asked the same question on AllExperts.com, and I got my answer this morning:

Expert: Sandra Todd
Subject: Can a rat still have a good life with a paralyzed foreleg?
Question: Today I took my rat, Crass, to see the vet about a lump in her armpit. after feeling the lump for several minutes she told me that it is most likely a benign mammary tumor, but that due to the location surgery might be too risky. She said the tumor felt pretty connected, and that because of the amount of major nerves and blood vessels in the area, Crass could end up with a paralyzed front leg if we try to remove the tumor. My questions is, if she does end up with a limb she can't use, will she still be happy and functional? Or do I just let the tumor grow until I have to put her down?

I really don't know what to do, I've never had to make a decision like this before. What would you do if it was your rat?


Answer: I would find another vet to be honest. This is a very common place for tumors to grow and surgery is usually not a huge ordeal in this area. If your vet has the proper surgical implements she should be able to avoid these blood vessels to prevent excess bleeding but also to be able to avoid nerve damage. Can the rat live without the use of one of the forelimbs? Yes, she probably could adjust just fine. Rats adjust fine even when they have hind leg paralysis due to old age and in fact,someone I know rescued a little baby rat that had no front paws at all, only stumps, and she even climbed like a champ! I have had rats that have had to have an eye removed due to massive infection and they do just fine, as if nothing ever happened. How old is your girl? Please go private and let me know the name of your vet so I can check her credentials to be sure this vet is even right for the job of doing this surgery. Not ALL vets can safely perform surgery on rats and have a safe outcome, thats for sure. Not long ago someone wrote to me after her little female died during a spay. Turns out the vet took out the kidneys rather than the ovaries (this was discovered when another vet did the necropsy) The list goes on and on, but scary thing is, these vets claimed they were trained in exotics, which is sadly not always true. Some vets have what is called a special interest in exotics but this only means they have an interest in them, not formal training, which is a big big factor when choosing a vet to treat your rats.
Most of what we discuss can be found on my website:
http://sandyscrittercity.com/

 

[lilspaz68]

Yep thats about how we were all feeling. VERY surprised at a vet saying this to you. :emb:

 

[rat.charmer]

OMG how do you mistake a kidney for an OVARY?!?!
A kidney looks like a bean...an ovary looks like...pale bunches of grapes.

 

[Spork]

I took Crass to another vet today. I had to sell a bunch of video games to pay for it, but it was worth it. :dance:
This vet said that the tumor should be easy to remove! She says she gets rats in maybe twice a week, I don't remember the numbers on how often she does mass removals on them, but just this week she's done surgeries on an iguana, a hedgehog, and a chinchilla.

I'm thinking about getting her spayed at the same time she has the tumor removed, because I've read that getting spayed can help prevent tumors and slow their growth. I'm gonna schedule surgery as soon as I find out if my parents will pay for it, or at least lend me the money.

 

[victoria]

That sounds much better! Rats recover really quickly from lump removals and spays, I hope you can work out something with your parents to get the surgery soon. (I am so pleased and impressed to see a young person making their rats' health a priority, I know how hard it is.)

 

[Joanne]

That's great news Spork! I hope you can get the surgery done soon and it goes well. I got a tumour removed from my Jazzy today. She is 2.5 years old. She is in good health otherwise, so I decided it was worth the risk. She was spayed when she was much younger. This is her second tumour removal. All my other girls have been spayed too, and only one other girl has had a mammary tumour so far. So spaying really does help reduce the incidence. Good luck!

 

[maria-mar]

Just read through the whole thing and wow, this post is a good lesson on "how to chose your vet!"
You did a pretty good choice, asking for a second, a third and a fourth opinion! Now let's keep our fingers crossed for little Crass!

 

[Spork]

On another note, a few days ago I emailed vet#1 asking these questions:

1. Do you advise against surgery because of the risk of death or because of the risk of paralysis?

2. How many tumor removals do you perform on rats per year? How often are they successful?

3. Have you ever done a mass removal with similar risks to this one? How did it go?

Her reply:

I think there is a
significant risk of both paralysis and death given the location. I do
many mass removals. It is a common surgery that is done almost daily
at our hospital, but mostly on dogs and cats. The majority of the
tumors on rats are inoperable by the time that I see them--typically
too large or in a poor location. Therefore, I probably only do mass
removals on rats a few times a year. Again, I think the location of
Crass' tumor makes the risks outweigh the benefits.

It makes me wonder how many people didn't go to another vet, and had to watch their rats die... I don't think she's a bad vet, it just seems like she's overly cautious when it comes to tumors on rats. I feel like I should tell her that it's not inoperable, and can probably be removed with no problems whatsoever. Would that be rude? I would have to choose my words carefully, and probably wait until after the surgery. And the reason for telling her would be in the hopes that she either takes it upon herself to learn more about tumors on rats, or refers patients to another vet if she doesn't feel comfortable removing the tumor.

Advice please...

 

[victoria]

I don't think it would be rude at all, especially if you are mindful of the wording. It may encourage her to take some courses or other type of professional development to become a better rat surgeon or to suggest an alternative vet to others in your shoes.

 

[maria-mar]

I'd suggest doing it only after Crass's surgery. You could send a photo of her recovering so she does SEE that it isn't impossible

 

[Joanne]

**Absolutely do not say anything until your rattie comes through with flying colours.** If Crass is OK, then you could try and let her know that it IS possible, so that maybe she will have a new perpective on rat surgeries.
Hmmm...but on the other hand, maybe you could let her know what happened regardless of the outcome. The more information one has, the better one can made decisions in the future.

 

[Spork]

From what I saw when I brought in Crass, and everything that I've heard from my coworker, this woman is a good vet, and she genuinely cares about her patients and doing what's best for them

I don't think it would be rude at all, especially if you are mindful of the wording. It may encourage her to take some courses or other type of professional development to become a better rat surgeon or to suggest an alternative vet to others in your shoes.

This is exactly my reason for wanting to tell her, it's not about saying "you were wrong", and I don't want to be disrespectful in any way, I just want to help. My hope is that by telling her, she would then be able to help her clients make better informed decisions about their pets' health.

You could send a photo of her recovering so she does SEE that it isn't impossible

Great idea! Thank you A coworker of mine used to be a veterinary assistant (she knows this vet and has nothing but good things to say about her), and she suggested that a good way to phrase it would be as an "update on Crass". And yeah, I'm definitely gonna wait until after the surgery.

 

[Spork]

On another note, here's Crass last summer (long before the tumor):

Happy, healthy, and nomming on a blueberry

 

[Spork]

Surgery is scheduled for Friday. :dance: :dance:

I'm so glad I kept looking until I found a vet I'm comfortable with, thank you guys so much for your help and advice :hugs:

 

[lilspaz68]

That's wonderful!!!!

 

[Spork]

I'm gonna get her spayed at the same time, since it'll help prevent more tumors, and it's waaaaay cheaper than doing them separately. Still expensive, but it'll be the base cost of a spay, $305, plus $30 for the mass removal, wheras just getting the tumor removed without the spay would be about $250. I'm so glad my parents are willing to help me out with the money :heart: :cuddle:

 

[lilspaz68]

I'm gonna get her spayed at the same time, since it'll help prevent more tumors, and it's waaaaay cheaper than doing them separately. Still expensive, but it'll be the base cost of a spay, $305, plus $30 for the mass removal, wheras just getting the tumor removed without the spay would be about $250. I'm so glad my parents are willing to help me out with the money :heart: :cuddle:

Your parents rock, and that's a great decision. :thumbup: