Crass's tumor removal - Update: Sewn back up

[Spork]

My rat has a tumor, but because of it's location (armpit area) the vet said that surgery to remove it is likely to cause serious nerve damage, possibly resulting in a paralyzed front leg. So I'm wondering if a rat can adapt to that and still have a good quality of life.
Has anyone her ever had a rad with a paralyzed or even missing front leg? Could it still function? Was it happy?

I really don't know what to do right now, I have to decide between letting the tumor grow until she has to be put to sleep, or having a really risky surgery that could leave her worse off than the tumor.

Please help.

 

[victoria]

Can you take a picture of it? I have had a handful of armpit tumours, up to the size of a walnut, removed with no paralysis. Is your vet experienced with rats? Do you guys think it's a mammary tumour or something else?

Generally though, I would think that a rat would be able to adapt to living without the use of a front leg. They would need help grooming and eating (softened food maybe) but I would think they would be capable of adapting and leading a full life. I'm still troubled though by what your vet told you, I have never heard of a situation like that and armpit tumours are very common.

 

[Spork]

Sorry, armpit was probably the wrong word, it's inside of her front left leg, more on her chest than on the side. I wish could give a better description of the exact location of the lump, but my computer won't let me post pictures.

According to the vet, the mass feels pretty strongly attached, and in an area with lots of major blood vessels and nerves.

 

[victoria]

So is it on the collarbone then? If it's strongly attached, does the vet still suspect that it's mammary? How big is it? Can you get it aspirated to see what you're dealing with? If you can get a picture and link it somewhere where you can upload it that would be helpful too.

 

[Spork]

Here's the thing about getting a picture, I took some with my phone and sent them to my email, but I'm using my housemate's computer and for some reason it won't let me download the attachments. The only thing I can think of is forwarding you the email. The pictures aren't great, because for some reason my phone has a five second delay between pressing the button and actually taking the picture, but they probably tell you more than I could about exactly where the tumor is located.

The vet did say that 's most likely a mammary tumor. As far as getting it aspirated, I really have no idea, but the vet said I could call if I had any more questions.

Thank you for your help, this is so overwhelming for me. It's the first time I've had to deal with a pet health problem since moving out of my parents' house, and so now it's all no me and I have to decide what to do. I know that I want to give Crass the longest, happiest life possible, but I don't know how to do that right now.

 

[lilspaz68]

Mammary tumours usually come off relatively easily, not affecting too much...I have had some tricky (and malignant) tumours removed with no paralysis, its possible your vet is just warning you of potential issues then saying it WILL happen.

How old is your girl, and how big is the tumour now?

 

[Spork]

Mammary tumours usually come off relatively easily, not affecting too much...I have had some tricky (and malignant) tumours removed with no paralysis, its possible your vet is just warning you of potential issues then saying it WILL happen.

How old is your girl, and how big is the tumour now?

In this case this potential risks seem to be very high, as in Crass is more likely to have some kind of nerve damage than to get through surgery unscathed.

Crass is somewhere between one and two years, but that's the best estimate I can get from her former people. The tumor is relatively small compared to most of the pictures I've seen... A little bigger than a grape I think, but she doesn't like holding still, so it's hard to say. But in this case the potential complications seem to be more about location than size.

 

[rat.charmer]

I know people on the forum have had rats with 3 limbs and they do AWESOME.

 

[lilspaz68]

I know people on the forum have had rats with 3 limbs and they do AWESOME.

Chelle has her Clod, and I have Inca. Pic from last night, she climbs and runs (in her way).

Has your vet done many removals? I can show you pics of nasty ones that were successfully removed. Is there another decent vet in your area? Where are you located?

 

[lilspaz68]

Did it look like Hayla's? Attached to her chest (there's mammary tissue there) but pushing up front of her neck?

Dec 2

Dec 25

This one ended up huuuge but wasn't too difficult to remove and she healed well.

this little old lady had a huuuuge tumour on her side

Successfully removed
She was soooo happy to be able to groom her belly again :giggle:

 

[jorats]

Is your vet experienced with rats? Mammary tumours are usually easy enough to remove. Malignant ones, not so much because they are usually attached to something.
Can you see another vet just to get a second opinion?

 

[Spork]

I know people on the forum have had rats with 3 limbs and they do AWESOME.

Are any of them missing a front leg? It's kinda the difference between hands and feet... I'm trying to compare worst case scenarios right now, and if I know she has a decent chance of adapting to a life with limited to no use of one of her hands, well... it's encouraging. Thank you.

Did it look like Hayla's? Attached to her chest (there's mammary tissue there) but pushing up front of her neck?

Dec 2

Dec 25

Yes, this looks very similar to Crass's both in location and size, thank you so much for posting reference pics.

Is your vet experienced with rats? Mammary tumours are usually easy enough to remove. Malignant ones, not so much because they are usually attached to something.
Can you see another vet just to get a second opinion?

Yes, the vet is experienced with rats. I found five vets in my area that deal with rats, so a second opinion is an option, but I would have to ask my parents for the money. I plan on calling the vet today to ask if she can email me a written diagnoses, with details about the risks of surgery, because when I was there yesterday it was alot of information to take in all at once, and I was pretty overwhelmed at the time.

 

[lilspaz68]

I know people on the forum have had rats with 3 limbs and they do AWESOME.

Are any of them missing a front leg? It's kinda the difference between hands and feet... I'm trying to compare worst case scenarios right now, and if I know she has a decent chance of adapting to a life with limited to no use of one of her hands, well... it's encouraging. Thank you.

Did it look like Hayla's? Attached to her chest (there's mammary tissue there) but pushing up front of her neck?

Dec 2

Dec 25

Yes, this looks very similar to Crass's both in location and size, thank you so much for posting reference pics.

Is your vet experienced with rats? Mammary tumours are usually easy enough to remove. Malignant ones, not so much because they are usually attached to something.
Can you see another vet just to get a second opinion?

Yes, the vet is experienced with rats. I found five vets in my area that deal with rats, so a second opinion is an option, but I would have to ask my parents for the money. I plan on calling the vet today to ask if she can email me a written diagnoses, with details about the risks of surgery, because when I was there yesterday it was alot of information to take in all at once, and I was pretty overwhelmed at the time.

VERY good idea!!!

 

[Spork]

Email from the vet:

There are two treatment options for Crass.

The first is to do nothing and let the mass take it's course. As it
grows larger, she will likely have mobility issues and there is
potential for the mass to become ulcerated. My best guess is that
that would take a month or two to get to the point that it is
hindering her.

The second is to try and remove the mass surgically. I think this
option carries significant risk as the mass appears to be entangled
near large vessels and nerves. The risks would be that she may
hemorrhage or have paralysis of the leg after surgery. I also think
the chances of being able to completely excise the mass, given the
location, are not high. So the odds are that that would recur at the
site.

Personally, I think the first option is the best one due to the risks
associated with surgery. Let me know if you need any other
information.

I feel all hopeless and helpless...

 

[lilspaz68]

you need a second opinion. She's only 18 months old...she's a "baby". With surgery she could easily live another 10 months, without maybe 3 months or so?

the only truly difficult mammary tumors are inguinal ones...and that's not inguinal.

 

[victoria]

This is Sophie. She also has a tumour in the same area, and it is malignant. We aren't removing it because she has so many tumours and at her age (30 months now) she would have a hard time recovering, but she has had it for over four months and it's just now impacting her ability to hold food with one of her paws. (I give her soft food to compensate.) She still runs, climbs, and grooms normally. She is chemically spayed though so that makes a difference in slowing down tumour growth.

There is hope. I'm not saying don't get it removed, I probably would in your shoes, but it sounds strange to me that the vet thinks there is such a risk of paralysis. If you can get a second opinion, I would do so. I would also look into getting her spayed at the same time because it greatly reduces the chances of the tumour coming back or at least slows the growth of new ones.

 

[Spork]

Getting a second opinion in less than two hours... If money and transportation weren't a problem, I would take her to every vet in town.

 

[victoria]

Good to hear. I know it's hard to have to fork out even more money at a time like this when there's so much uncertainty. Good luck :hugs:

 

[lilspaz68]

Ooh good luck at the new vets!

 

[Spork]

Just got back from my second opinion. Vet #2 seemed like she didn't know what she was talking about at all. It got to a point where I was telling HER about rat tumors, and all the education I have on the subject is two days of internet research. Luckily there was another vet there who does have some experience with mass removal on rats, and she had time to talk to me. So vet #3 told me that removal has a 95% chance of success, but she also spent ALOT less time feeling the lump than vet #1 (who advises against removal).

So now I'm just confused and conflicted.

I would take her for a third opinion if I had $60 to spare.