Alright my favorite rat experts :) only when difficult :) ha

[hopefloats]

So I just put the boys back but I put them the others cages for a while. Kinda switched them out. Hoping this will help a bit.

 

[jorats]

Ok so what you have here... Templeton is the alpha and your nakie boy Toby wants to rule the kingdom. He knows Templeton is the boss which is why he comes up slow to him. When a rat puts their face under another rat, they are asking to be groomed and "respected". Templeton can't do this or he will lose the position to Toby.
Scratches between the two nakies is normal and will happen a lot. If your nakie boy was furred, you probably wouldn't even know he had been scratched. Boys play rough but it's not usually ever mean.
From this, I'd say you need to keep doing your intros. Now that you know you can go several hours and things are great, you can go back to doing only 1 hour intros twice a day if you can. But they need 1 hour once a day at the very least. I'd do this for another week.

 

[hopefloats]

That is unreal. Not what I thought at all So Templeton will never do it, and Toby will most likely quit. I think it is funny the determination that Toby has LOL after all those bites to his face, he keeps going back for more. Dopey has been doing the same thing, but to loki more so, i don't think he trust Templeton, he has got it a few times from him. I plan on still doing them, dopey is my concern now, he is doing a lot of standing on his legs when they walk by, nothing has become of it, i don't think they take his dumbo ears seriously.


I have subway sandwich so I am going to eat it with them lol I know they will think about food and not who is there with all those smells.

 

[jorats]

, i don't think they take his dumbo ears seriously.

:laugh4: who can blame them. lol

I have subway sandwich so I am going to eat it with them lol I know they will think about food and not who is there with all those smells.

Getting them to enjoy something as a group is a good idea.

 

[hopefloats]

I know i cant. I have a hard time not laughing at him when he sits there and stares at me..

I notice the babies go search out Templeton to sleep with. They are the 3 usually in a group. It now amazes where it did not before the intros, because Templeton will just sit there and let the babies beat him up, he will squeak a little but he sits there and lets them do it all day. I can watch both of the babies sit there and just bite away at him, and he just doesnt even move much. Now that I see he means business to my other rats it is quite amazing that he sees the differences with the babies.


I think they enjoyed the sandwich more than I did, they are all being lazy now...

 

[hopefloats]

Today Templeton's bites seem to be less. he isnt biting as much nor is he biting as hard, they are lighter you can tell, more like a nip in the general direction of their face rather than actually biting their face. 5 days later LOL

 

[jorats]

That's because the two "new guys" are getting the message. He's boss and that's that.

 

[hopefloats]

I have been taking dopey out of the group earlier than the rest of the boys. Dopey is super stressed from the introductions and I know if he keeps getting bit, it is only going to make him more fighty. Toby and the others are ok, but for some reason, dopey it terrified and he is lashing out. He has even been trembling. I want him to be able to build his trust back into the group but I just don't see it improving unless he gets a slower introduction than the rest. I may put him out with just the babies tomorrow for a while i think those bites from Templeton and that head smack really put the fear in him and not in a good way. Any other ideas for dopey to cope with this? you can literally see him shake from fear.

 

[jorats]

Do you have a small cage that you could put on the table, even if it's just the topper of a cage, something that might make Dopey feel more secure on the table.

 

[hopefloats]

Yes I do their travel cage is a wired, two level type hamster cage. Put him in there and on the table?

 

[jorats]

Put the cage on the table with it open. Rats feel more secure when there's a cage around, so they can come and go. But be at the ready. A cage could become a territory.

 

[hopefloats]

And that is why I did not have one out there LOL. I am even worried about boxes at this point. I might just find a new box, I think he did ok with that. each time he has been crabby he hasn't had any where for comfort, because I have been keeping them away. I guess I could take the bottom off the cage, and lay it down, the door is so small, i could never get in there to save or stop anything. well I could get in there but not safely. I will try that tomorrow and see how it goes.

 

[jorats]

That's what I do, I just put the top of the cage so I can lift it real fast should there be a problem.

 

[hopefloats]

that is even better LOL I dont know why i didnt think of that, still easier than it being on its side LOL

 

[hopefloats]

Day 6 wow, six days of intros and no major attacks! yay! I did try the cage topper, i think it gave dopey a little to much power. I opted out on that for a few more days, and I put the bottom down, which seems to work without major attitude, they are all cuddled in it for a nap. actually Templeton isn't liking the share a box today, they do seem to be battling a bit for the box but nothing really major.

Today dopey was our biter and groomer. He was doing the babies, and loki. Toby was the only one bit today by Templeton, but the day is till early. This time he actually squeaked. Not something he has done before and he didn't have any marks so it was Templeton typical bite. Hopefully that is a sign of giving into Templeton.

Dopey is demanding respect for his ears....

Templeton is still leary of them. You can tell he kinda watches their every move.

It has been 4 or 5 days of smells, 2 days of multiple face to face encounters while I held them, along with cage switching this whole entire time. to finally get to 6 days of actual meetings on the table and play time. I didn't think it has been long, but it has.

now we are doing whole day switches in the cage, so hopefully that will help a little more.

 

[jorats]

You're doing great. In fact, you've done more than most of us have ever done for intros. I admire your dedication... we should all be so persistent and determined to get the job done and done good.

 

[hopefloats]

aw Thanks, I just dont like the site of blood or the idea of a huge fight LOL.. So i am trying to go at a slow pace.

 

[hopefloats]

Dopey was quite the mean rat last night, Templeton has let down, he isnt biting as much, or as hard. Now mr. dopey is constantly on edge. He is sitting there like the kung-fo hamster stance lol he is doing a lot of standing on his hind legs like he is anticipating a bite. I kinda forced him to lay on Templeton and made him stay there as well. He did not want them in the box at all. I rubbed their heads till they calmed down and laid together for a while.

None of the fights are major, I am assuming they are normal male rats quarrels. It is just a stand my ground type thing.


So at what point do you decide it is ok to move them in together? and when you do that can it get worse or does it generally stay the same?

 

[jorats]

My rule of thumb is one week neutral and one week of familiar. If that goes well, then they move in. With my last intros, I had to go much longer because on familiar ground, it just wasn't the happy place for the rats, so it takes longer until it becomes a happy place.

 

[hopefloats]

So we will be at the common area for a while templeton and dopey are die hard attitude holders lol toby almost seems like he gave up the fight, loki could careless and the babies just don't care at all as long as they don't pick on them.