Alright my favorite rat experts :) only when difficult :) ha

[hopefloats]

We had cuddle time today 4 of them calmed down enough to nap for a few minutes.

They were all sleeping when I brought them out, so they were not ready to be awake. We did it 3 times today, I will do it one more time later, when they wake up and when my daughter is here so she can take part in it.

Toby groomed Templeton, my heart stopped for a second lol he is the one being the crabbiest, he just sat there, squeak then toby stopped. Toby has groomed both the babies and one of the big boys, but none have done it back to him yet.

 

[jorats]

Ideally, getting them to cuddle and nap together would be a great sign that things are going great.
But also to see them in action when stressed and when not stressed will indicate how things are going between them.

 

[hopefloats]

That is what I am waiting for. A few more days of this, and no attitude, we will try the common area. I am not sure about that one. I did notice they quit hissing in the cage though so that is a good sign.

I will just keep this up for a while and see how it goes. I was shocked Templeton let Toby grab him, and then groom him without lashing out. Toby has became my pika of the boys, if he is to much for them, I can always try to let him live with the girls. Poor dopey is so attached to him i hope it doesn't come to that.

Dopey has less energy so they seem to not mind him around, but toby is a handful. he is constantly pulling on them, i seriously think he is jealous of their fur, and trying to make them naked like him lol.

I will feel better once they all start grooming each other, right now, toby is the only one lol

 

[Fidget]

hey hopefloats, I know this post is about ratties. However I need to tell you that I am smitten & enamored of you.
I suppose I should say why. It's about your feelings for others, most particularly your ratties.

 

[hopefloats]

awe Thanks.... I have become quite in love with this little things. I just feel bad because i know if i didn't take them home, what they would be. Then I really learned about them, now i am in awe with them LOL i have a rat out constantly.

 

[hopefloats]

Well this morning I attempted a little meeting, it was ok for a few, then Templeton bit at Toby, Toby scrunched down. I figured Templeton was putting him in his place since he is quite a menace to them. I just wasn't in the mood to have a fight on my hands, bad day today, girls were fighting like crazy, not just play but bindi and pika were puffed up. Bindi's abscess came back. but I will post that on another thread, my dogs were even fighting today. Seriously there is something wrong in my animal kingdom today. lol

I will try again later.

about the bite, it did not leave a mark, so i am guessing it is just a get back in line buddy type bite. he wasnt trying to hurt him. I know if he wanted to, then he could. lol

what do you think?

 

[hopefloats]

ok so this afternoon, templeton was a little crabby again. You could see his hairs standing up a bit. I figured it was a good idea to stop.

I am unsure what to do at this point. If i should push through or take a different approach?


I put them both on my lap and held them there, pet Templeton to make him relax, which he generally does well. put them back up there and his hairs stayed down, I put the hairless boys in their part of the cage so they would pee in it LOL. figured it might help with them getting used to the smell maybe/

 

[jorats]

So what's happening now is that Templeton is feeling better and getting used to being in that neutral area. He's probably your alpha. He's going to need to dominate the new boys so that they submit to him and then all will be well.
You can keep stopping the intros each time you feel that Templeton is tense or stressed but at some point, you will need to let it go and watch to see what happens. You can take all the time you need, do this when you are feeling relaxed so you can send good energy in the room.

 

[hopefloats]

That would probably explain why toby all of the sudden started freezing in his tracks. The videos are after his bite from templeton today. He kinda just sat there with his eyes closed like he was expecting a bite to hurt. He really wasn't biting them as much, or grooming them as much. I would of thought toby would be alpha, but i am always wrong on that LOL.
The lighting sucks in here, even in the day time. The blues are hard to tell apart, you can tell templeton by looking at his hind legs, you see mostly white. Loki has a more of a white coat and templetons is more solid, loki only has a little white on his stomach, where temple-tons is almost all white.

You can see it on this video how he was walking really slow up to the boys, I kinda wondered if he would attack, but he closed his eyes and hunched down and walked super slow over to the boys, templeton is in front of him, and loki smelled his back..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVIUdgy9f-4

this one you can see how he spent most of his time. He isnt hurt lol nor did templetons bite make a mark, but it sure put his spirit down a notch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9qO31KYHqk

 

[jorats]

I'll have to watch these videos once I'm back home, my internet at work sucks pretty bad.
But from your description, I can almost tell what is going on and that's all normal too. It's going very good I would say. I'll comment more once I see the videos.

 

[hopefloats]

Thank you! I honestly can not thank you enough for this help. It really means a lot to me and my rats. I really don't know enough about male rat attitude to judge what is ok and what is a warning sign.

 

[jorats]

The first video looks great, the rats are doing fine, not a puffy rat in sight, they are getting along.
The second video has Toby looking like his feelings were hurt. That looks like he's submitting which is excellent.
If you can, now would be the time to make your intros an hour long if you can.

 

[hopefloats]

I figured now would not be the time to pull back but this nerve wrecking. I actually feel horrible for toby LOL he is sitting there wanting so bad to be by them, and you can tell he is sad LOL

This is them right now, toby was getting ready to go lay on top of them, and my daughter walked in making noise at the wrong moment

Templeton walked up to Toby with his mouth open. I think my heart literally stopped waiting for blood shed, but they are his warning bites still. He is not leaving even a little mark on him at all. he grabbed him, toby turned around on him, that is when I said hey. I am not that brave yet LOL

dopey is at the end of the table he is sensitive LOL he is staying away. toby is trying you can tell he is giving up to them, I am completely shocked at how this is playing out.

now dopey slowly moved up to the group and toby was on top, very slowly cleaning loki.

 

[jorats]

Some rats will do the face bite for quite some time, almost like making sure that all the minions fall into place. Some of those bites can leave a mark but it's really not that big of a deal. The alpha must maintain control.

 

[hopefloats]

happy moment. The boys have been out for about 2 hours together. Not once ounce of drama! I was cleaning their cage out, and i was gonna put them back, but it was going so well i figured i would see how long our limit is. I moved them from their normal table to the other table, kinda switched it up, mainly because I need to wash the blanket they are on LOL and so far so good. right now they are all eating peanuts and checking everything out. but doing good. Toby hasn't been being a menance templeton has not had to put him in check once today....


I take that back actually, when I first put them out, toby was on templeton cleaning, I was telling my daughter oh no, LOL she in her wise 13 years old, said " mom they are going to have to fight it out you cannot avoid it" LOL she kinda did a reality check on me.

 

[hopefloats]

another major plus so much easier only cleaning one cage for the boys versus that horrible super pet cage on top of the double fn

 

[hopefloats]

They are still out, almost 3 hours now. I am still cleaning cages LOL yes it take a while with a double fn and a FF to clean, then laundry. Washing plastics, water bottles and food bowls.

They are tired now, so they are all looking for somewhere to nap but they only have a food bowl and a litter box out. On purpose of course making it to where the only place they can get warm is together..


Toby walked so slowly over to the haired boys, he slowly climbed on Templeton, it was funny you could totally tell he was testing the waters with each step he made. Templeton was leary, eyes open, waiting to see what was gonna happen. Templeton relaxed but he must of seen that he wasn't meaning harm.

it is blurry but it was such a huge moment for them both, I couldn't take a chance of messing it up.

This is where my lil naked boy ended up, he found the joy of fur on his belly.

Even I can tell what a huge moment this was for the boys, they pretty much stayed in their own cliques, my hairless boys wanted in so bad but of course our others were not sure. Templeton watched, Toby was brave, Templeton said ok, he isn't going to hurt me, then they settle down for a nap.

It is a big moment for the hairless, now i have to see the haired boys seek them out for a cuddle and I think i will be on my way to one actual pack of ratties.

From left to right, Loki, dopey, Templeton, Toby, ludo and al In their first unprovoked cuddly nap!

 

[jorats]

Awww... that's wonderful. That long with no fights, that's just amazing! yay!!!

 

[hopefloats]

They lasted just under 4 hours with only minor looks. I have them out again final time for the night to see how it goes. The haired rats are at least starting to sniff them now rather than avoid.

 

[hopefloats]

Day 5

Last night Dopey was in the litter box, Templeton did not like it and kinda slapped his head with his paws. dopey also started getting scared. He got to where any haired rat came near him, he was on his hind legs with attitude. So I took him out of the bunch for the rest of the night, so he wasnt adding to the drama. He had loki getting angry and loki has really been a gem in all of this. Which surprises me because he is the one who hisses at the dog non stop, and he is the one who bit me really hard the first night we had him, wasn't his fault, i was fixing the paper through the bar, it was his first night at our house so he was scared.

This morning i gave dopey some out time with just the babies to calm him down since I know the babies wont hurt him, and he doesn't hurt them. Then I brought the rest of the group out once i seen he was being ok and not scared. I did keep him away from Templeton though.

We do have some minor scratches, I think dopey bit toby last night, toby has a bite mark on his back this morning. So today I am taking it back a step to the scary table . For little amounts of time.

Toby is still slow walking up on Templeton, I cannot tell what his purpose is. At the end of this video, he puts his head under Templeton, and Templeton nips him. you would think if you kept getting bit, you would stop but not Toby.

Both of my hairless boys are seeking out Templeton. I guess they know he is the one to accept him? Templeton will be laying there and i can see both boys trying to go up to him to lay next to him. I guess putting their head under him is so he will groom them?

Toby keeps trying with Templeton more, but he keeps getting nipped, at least Templeton is not biting them hard just warning bites still.

I have to stay away from the table a few feet, or the haired boys spend their whole time trying to get to me. So i am watching them from my desk lol I dont know what influence I would have on being close to them. I have still been going and picking Templeton up for a few minutes every so often because he is getting the brunt of all this, to keep his stress level down, I hold him for a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_6YXTDSKCk

I have come to the conclusion that this is all based off Templeton. I am waiting for him to accept them. Loki, ludo and al can care less. They are fine with them. Templeton will move if they come near him, is on edge when they are around, and he is the one nipping them all. I feel bad for the hairless, you can tell they really want his acceptance, they keep seeking him out, I just wish he would have a heart and give it to them soon.

I am glad that he isnt being mean, so i know in time he will accept them. So at least there is hope still.

Dopey right now is sticking his head under Loki, what is the purpose of this? He does that to Toby a lot but he tends to hide under him when he is scared.

I try to leave them out when they do nap together, figured that would be an ideal time for them to bond without effort on my part.