Tattooing rats?

[ema-leigh]

I was not really sure where to post this (feel free to move if its in the wrong bit), but I just wanted to hear others opinions since I'm still on the fence about this one.

Okay well the breeder I am working with on an upcoming line, tattoo's her rats ears with her ratteries prefix. I guess because shes had other breeders claim her line as their own. I have several tattoos, so I know they can hurt really bad... or in some places you don't feel nothing. I was just wondered is this considered a safe practice. I think its a great idea, obviously if it is not detrimental to the rats wellbeing.

I know she is a good breeder, she registered with the NRR and her lines are well distributed with other well known ratteries.. I have even seen a lot of her rats used as foundations for other peoples lines. She has fantastic rats, all pedigreed. I would prefer not to name drop in case anyone here really doesn't agree with in and decides to give her an ear full.

Does anybody know more on this subject than I do right now lol? I did try to research but did not find much.

 

[LA]

I don't agree with it. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think dogs are even tattooed anymore. Too much pain for a little animal.

 

[ema-leigh]

That was my main concern. I meant to ask her if she uses any technique for the pain.

The reason why they don't tattoo dogs anymore is because they invented the microchip rather than it being deemed cruel. I have heard of several dog breeders still tattooing their pups. (And the microchip hurts more than a tattoo gun, but is quicker and just once.) And I know a lot of people still brand horses, which is even crueler. Thats a hot iron, instead of the tattoo gun.

What about from a cosmetic point of view also?

 

[Rachael]

No....Way!

That isn't a good breeder in my opinion. That is going to be painful and totally pointless too - I see no good reasons at all for that. Anybody can register with a rat club, it means nothing at all, that doesn't make a good breeder.

 

[Rachael]

all pedigreed.

Peidgree???

 

[sausage4ever]

all pedigreed.

Peidgree???

A pedigree is just a family tree, and any breeder worth their weight best have one. A pedigree doesn't mean registered or even purebred.
As for the tatoo'ing I don't think it makes her a "bad" breeder particularly if you have enough reasoning to back it up. She' s doing the least painful permanent identification for her rats.
If she's a super awesome breeder(*shrugs*) and one of her tatooed rats ends up at the local shelter, there is a possibility the shelter is able to call her and she may even go get her rat back. I know this happens with microchipped dogs, the GHS has called a breeder after finding one of their (not theirs theirs but of thier line) dogs as a stray, nid you this breeder sucked and relinquished the PWD to the shelter.

 

[victoria]

I'm really interested to know what breeder would do this in order to "preserve" their lines and their ownership of them. If I wanted to breed their lines, couldn't I just claim the second (non-tattooed) generation as my own? Unauthorized breeding of a breeder's line is something that should be prevented and dealt with proper screening and adoption contracts.

Just because tattoos don't hurt us (sometimes) doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt a rat. Microchipping dogs cannot be compared to tattooing a rat's ear if you are talking about painfulness of the procedure. Three of my rats have chemical spays which are preformed by inserting the implant between the shoulder blades. I can feel the implants inside them, so I would assume they are at least the size of microchips. None of my rats have ever shown any signs of pain or discomfort after the implants - I have seen 2 of them within 5 minutes of the procedure being preformed. (Please remember, these procedures were preformed for the medical benefit of my rats.) I know from experience, that even broken blood vessels in rats ears can cause discomfort, so I would doubt very much that tattooing could be safe (infection risk for one) or pain free. Not only that, but how many people have experience tattooing rats?

If someone is breeding they should have enough experience to know that this is an unnecessary risk and not need to mull it over. If they really wanted to keep track of they rats, they could have them microchipped. If you are still unsure about all of this, I suggest you discuss it with your vet who probably has a better handle on the risks and the pain involved.

 

[jorats]

Do you mean using a needle and ink? WTF...

 

[Rachael]

Do you mean using a needle and ink? WTF...

"tattoo gun".

Ema I'm shocked you even consider this to be honest. What good is it going to do?

 

[Godmother]

Sounds horrible to me. Pain, bleeding. Rats' ears evidently are very easily damaged when the blood supply is interfered with. I don't agree with the idea at all.

 

[Nekopan]

I have watched both tattoos and microchips on dogs. I can assure you tattoos are MUCH more painful than microchipping. Most good vets will only tattoo if the animal is already under anesthetic (ie for a spay or neuter).

 

[Rissa]

Okay well the breeder I am working with on an upcoming line, tattoo's her rats ears with her ratteries prefix. I guess because shes had other breeders claim her line as their own.

A) why is she not screening these breeders out with adoption contracts that are detailed and specific, as well as home checks? There is no way to hide an entire rattery!

B) If they are going as pet only and this is a known problem to her then spays/neuters are the easy solution, not a painful tattoo. I also don't see the point of marking the parent? All they have to do is breed it and they can then claim the babies as their own, the marking does nothing?

 

[Moon]

Tattooing is still used for dogs but it's less common, and as said it's most often done when the animal is under anesthetic. I really can't imagine what possible reason there would be for doing it to a rat, and it seems all the stupider a thing to do if done when the rats are conscious.

 

[ema-leigh]

That tattoo is not just to 'claim the line as hers', it also helps prevent any of them going to pet stores or shelters etc as much as she can.

When I am talking about dogs being tattooed, in the UK my dogs were sedated to be tattooed (breeders orders, not mine) I assumed it would be the same everywhere.

I'm not considering it, I'm researching the idea. I had never even heard of this up until a few weeks ago. I am trying to find out if it does hurt them or not, because not all tattoo's hurt.

When I said her rats were pedigreed I meant I was able to track multiple generations on her website and with a few other ratteries. I'm not just saying shes registered with the NARR so shes a good breeder, she is good to her rats and is an excellent breeder, obviously I have looked into all that already.

 

[jorats]

Unfortunately, causing pain to her pups is not being "good to her rats". OY!

 

[Rissa]

If she is a good breeder then she has nothing to worry about and posting her name publicly would not be a bad thing because she has nothing to hide and would not be bothered by an criticism. I find only people with something to hide would get upset with what people on a forum have to think

 

[Moon]

If she screens her buyers properly and has them sign the contract stating that any rats will be returned to her if need be, there should be very little issue with them ending up in a shelter or store. The main thing, though is that since there's no database for rat tattoos like there are for dogs, the people seeing these rats in shelters or stores wouldn't know where to start looking. With a dog tattoo, you call the ckc/akc/ukc and they tell the breeder about the animal missing.

 

[ema-leigh]

I do agree though that rats ears are sensitive and bleed like crazy, this is why I could not decide if it would be okay. Although I was told the needle is a small one and only goes into three layers of skin, so it barely bleeds. I am not certain if she does it herself or has the vet do it, I will bring that up. I also agree that they could just breed the rat and keep the offspring... in which case spay and neuters would be the best option.

I am just trying to get all the facts so I can have an educated opinion on this method, thats all.

I would think she would let local shelters know, even if you screen homes you can not guarantee 100% that adoptees won't just get bored of it after a year or two.

 

[Sorraia]

I have NEVER heard of a breeder having their rats tattooed, and quite frankly I don't see the point. Seriously - how many pet stores or shelters are going to even recognize the tattoos and know where they came from? I'll bet you NONE. Many people still don't even know what NARR is (and being registered with the NARR means NOTHING except you paid money to join). And if she's such a great breeder I don't understand why you are so afraid to give her name...

As for pedigrees - a pedigree really doesn't mean anything either, UNLESS it has records to back it up. Pretty much every breeder can claim a pedigree of some kind. I have seen some of the worst BYBs and even mill breeders show off pedigrees. That doesn't make someone a "great" breeder. What is important is that there are records behind those names. Records such as birth dates, death dates, cause of death, health notes through life, temperament notes, etc. That is what is important, not the names and colors.

 

[Sorraia]

I would think she would let local shelters know, even if you screen homes you can not guarantee 100% that adoptees won't just get bored of it after a year or two.

That's why keeping in touch with adopters is so important. If the adopter knows returning the rats is an option, they won't "forget" if the breeder is contacting them regularly (at least once a month).