Seriously 3 bleeding girls! It is utterly crappy luck 7/7

[hopefloats]

One of my boys had a neuter abscess and it felt like a testicle for a while. Then it disappeared on its own after a couple of months.

All I can say is, it boggles the mind.....

That is where my fault come in. Just days after, they were all sick. I mean two days, so it was a month of baytril and doxy. For all my rats. right after that med stopped is when the abscesses started to appear on the boys, it took a month then they showed up. 4 out of 5 had them. templeton included.

at this time I decided it was not working with the boys because templeton was still mean a month after his neuter.

i moved them in with the girls, thinking 4 weeks is enough time for any sperm left. I even asked Jorats if We are positive that 4 weeks is enough...I wanted no chances of babies.

i have been debating if this puffiness was because of his abscess which was worse than the others. It never even occurred to me it could still be testicles.

About 2 weeks after the move in, he swelled up, and it took me about 2-3 weeks to get this abscess to finally come to a head. it went a way.. I thought ok, 2 months no babies, so I seriously stopped worrying about it. I paid for neuters for them. It was not that long ago, that I questioned his testicles. I had in my head he was neutered i never dreamed of him not being. I even was waiting for an abscess to form figured maybe he is having a reoccurring one

His still look funny, not sure why, but this really explains a lot as far as his attitude.

I actually think he was not done. I think since Loki and Templeton are identical to non owners, of course we can tell but most wont be able to if they are side by side.

Logically if a tech brings the rats into the operating room, it is very possible they didn't know there was 4 in there? maybe they thought they did the gray one and just didn't look at the chart. Failed to see if there was two.

Honestly i cannot say where his incisions were, I didnt look that close because he was so sick after, i thought he wouldnt make it.

I think he just didn't figure it out till recently how to get it right? or the girls finally got in the right position.

 

[Joanne]

That is where my fault come in. Just days after, they were all sick. I mean two days, so it was a month of baytril and doxy. For all my rats. right after that med stopped is when the abscesses started to appear on the boys, it took a month then they showed up. 4 out of 5 had them. templeton included.

So did all the boys look 'done' that month that they were sick? Before the abscesses started? Would you have noticed a big difference if one wasn't done? Or were they all swollen?

 

[hopefloats]

all swollen..........for a few weeks from it. I remember showing my daughter and saying "he don't looked neutered at all" what I cannot remember is if it was him or Finley. because for a few weeks they were all swollen.

I am going to try to find pictures from that time but nothing makes sense about how he could still have them.

I will believe they were left there before I believe that they grew back.

 

[lilspaz68]

I personally think the vet is trying to cover her butt with that "explanation".

Good luck to your Skittles today!!

 

[hopefloats]

I have decided i have two options.

Option one, would be to take Templeton in for a neuter with the vet i like with 2 girls on the 22nd, since skittles is being done today. That means one of my girls wont get done. I can eliminate all worries by just getting the girls done. I would have to let he vet know I am not sure what is in there right now. I am not sure if she will even do that, because it is a spay neuter clinic only. the only problem is it is another cost to me for this. I just spent for 2 spays which is really straining me right now.

I have a hard time believing I only have one pregnant girl. Now if all of them pops up pregnant then I would see this. I do not want to be unfair, or accuse her of failing if she didn't and she got pregnant from here.

I cannot believe anyone can be this incompetent. I also cannot believe that they regrew. She is willing to do the exploratory on the boys to see what is going on. I dont want them going under the knife without me being present, either waiting there, and physically seeing what is coming out of my boys. I am unsure if she would let me be in the room or near it watching, I want to see every ounce of what is happening to my boys.

I am unsure about a trust level with her doing anything to my boys. The question isnt about her being able to put them under, since all of mine woke up, so i am not worried aobout her skills for putting them actually under. It is whether or not she left smething in there, or if they have massive scar tissue from a whack job.

I want everything ruled out. My group is separated and I cannot put them back till i know what is in their sacs.

They dont feel like total testicles for me some parts do but one feels like it is two on one side. ludo, Al and Finley appear to be neutered when they are out. I know they do not extend when they are warm so that leads me to believe it isnt a testicle.

Here is what i know about templeton. He mounts any girl that is in heat. Since the girls bleed there is penetration, now what is bleeding on them exactly is unsure. It could be a tear from a forceful mounting? or their actual uterus? He is still rubbing like mad when he is out and gets puffy on the table smelling anything.



I know that I cannot say they are in fact testicles by looking at the outside. It is like guessing what is inside a wrapped present. The only way for me to find out what is in there is to have them go under the knife to see.

I need to know what you would do. I cannot pay for 4 more neuters on boys to get in there and see that they are not testicles. that would be the final girls to be spayed, and that is a must.

I dont want to place blame on anyone, if she somehow got pregnant here, then I want the blame on my house, if Templeton has testicle, then she is getting it.

Would you have someone else go in there on one, Templeton, which I would still worry about the other 3 so I would have to keep my group separate, and start over with actually have each boy done again. I know al and ludo have never tried to mount the girls. Loki and templeton have.

What would you do?

 

[SQ]

The vet who neutered them should pay for the surgeries with a vet you feel comfortable with.
Perhaps she will be concerned enough about her reputation etc to do this so you will not file a complaint with the vet college or hire a lawyer.
The 3 neutered boys may have scar tissue that needs to be cleaned out .... sometimes that happens and is considered a complication of the original surgery. Regardless of the problem, this is her responsibility as is the first boy who apparently was not neutered.

Otherwise, you could try demanding your money back for the 4 neuters, citing 3 with complications needing further surgery and one not neutered.

You could also speak to a lawyer if there is inexpensive legal aid in your area. A lawyer could give you advice and perhaps the vet would take you more seriously.

 

[hopefloats]

Thanks

i cannot even begin to tell you how utterly confused i am about this. To not know what is happening is something that is hard to grasp.

I thought i knew they were now i don't know and I am so worried about how to check it. Angry because I have to. having to deal with skittles as a possible result is not a fun day.

I cannot grasp this in any way shape or form. I keep trying to logically explain it, but I just cant.

 

[jennifervb]

Dr. J is who neutered my boys. in march.

Dr. Hatch is the one who will be doing my spays, my original vet who moved to a spay clinic only she is from kryder vet clinic.

Dr E and Dr kryder are the new general care vets i have same office that hatch was at, and they are also the ones who will remove tumors if needed.

First of all the vet that did the neuters was highly recommended from the small animal rescue. i looked online, no complaints. I asked questions, she sent me a detailed email about how she does it. I didn't just pick blindly.

It turns out something went astray, i am beyond ticked off. I found skittles giving birth last night. Two babies passed. Today she is doing well, so we are doing her spay tomorrow and lump removal probably at the same time. The vet believes that there may still be a baby in there but i just got home from work and she had no new bleeding nor any babies. She also isn't bleeding at this time. She is out running on my desk like nothing happened. thank god. She is even playing But I wont leave her out for long, I dont want her to over do it


3 vets there confirmed that they feel as if they have at least one if not two testicles in there. But right now i have to work on my girls and see what is happening. or if they are in fact pregnant. I am freaking out to say the least.

I was up till around 2ish watching her. I didnt get much sleep when i did finally fall asleep. I loaded up my car with 3 girls, and 4 boys in two separated cages at 5:30 am and went for help. I got in there in tears telling her i am not sure what is going on, or how this is happening. Dr. E asked me this morning if i was sure these were the rats i took in. of course they are, i only have two gray males and I know i had this group done because of my failed intro with dopey. Finley was done as well, Which i still need to feel him but he is with boys so tomorrow. 3 of the vets there said they feel like testicles.

Bindi is round, but is always round so I am not sure what to think. My boys are in a cage by themselves. 3 girls are in one cage and 3 in the other, Skittles is still in her maternity cage. Which was my sewing box, till i dumped it all out in a panic.


I called the vet that did the neuters when I left kryder. To warn them that I am on my way, and I am pissed. I explained my boys were neutered and they feel as if they still have testicles and my girl was giving birth last night.

I go in there I expressed as nicely as I could that i am upset, that I have fought a long time to not have them happen in my house and it has. I explained that I want to know what these two testicle feeling sacs are on my boy and how they would still be there. I told her I am now on a watch with 6 girls and I am trying not to point fingers. I told her I expect a call today with an explanation as to why i have a rat in labor, and why I have a boy with testicles after i paid to have them removed. she was nice even when I was borderline breaking point.

She called me back talking about entropic tissue, I guess magically since the 4 boys are related a tissue can grow back, and it either could or could not have the spice to make babies. This is according to her and the PNC clinic vet school the one she spoke to. Ironically the one my child just attended for camp for vets

So apparently, my 4 boys have amazing testosterone, it is enough to magically make testicles re appear.......Guinness book here I come. They believe this because they are related, do i believe it? I am not sure what to think.

I know my boys had neuter abscess so I know they were cut open.
I want to know what is in here, he will have some sort of surgery to tell me that. All my boys will have something done to figure this out. I am not sure how that will happen,I will ask tomorrow. When I take skittles in for her spay and tumor removal.

Magically Dr. J is offering to spay all my girls (6 of them), and explore on my boys. Funny dont you think?


There is more but i am exhausted and I cannot think straight.

I can't believe what I am reading here!!! Where did they go to Veterinary School.... on Mars???

Hang in there Peggy-Pie and hold your ground. Is there any way for them to determine if something went wrong with the neuters without having to go back in surgically? If not, they had better do these surgeries free of charge. You could go viral with this information. It would damage their reputation (their bad... not yours!) :redhot:

 

[jennifervb]

Thanks

i cannot even begin to tell you how utterly confused i am about this. To not know what is happening is something that is hard to grasp.

I thought i knew they were now i don't know and I am so worried about how to check it. Angry because I have to. having to deal with skittles as a possible result is not a fun day.

I cannot grasp this in any way shape or form. I keep trying to logically explain it, but I just cant.

Skittles will be so happy to see you after her spay... just keep your head on straight and breathe Peggy. They know they messed up and I have no doubt that they are worried to have to deal with a justifiably furious pet owner. :hugs: Peggy :hugs:

 

[MomRat]

So, the vet friend says that although most male rats are sterile after 6 weeks post surgery, he has seen proof that they can remain fertile for 16 weeks post surgery due to semen remaining in the plumbing. It kind of makes sense, I know that when human men have a vasectomy, after it heals they tell them to, erm, clear out the pipes a certain number of times before going back in to get tested to be sure there is no sperm remaining in their semen. And if male rats are separated, they have no reason to ejaculate, to clear out the plumbing, as it were.

I have to say, this is counter to what I have heard here; I believe someone on the boards told us that the testosterone/emotional issues can last 16 weeks, but they should be sterile after 4. Maybe we need to be telling people to wait longer after neuters to re-introduce, for safety's sake?

My friend said he had never heard of the entropic/regrowing tissue thing, that it sounds kinda fishy, he will do a VIN search for us and get back to me.

 

[hopefloats]

I am just terrified now... i don't know that I can even put them back together any time soon. I dont know that there is any other way to see what is there without going under. I had to worry about skittles first so i didnt ask about how to check. 4 vet hands say they feel like testicles so I don't know. and now i am watching bindi, who i pick up every hour........I do not want a surprise again.

jennifer, Skittles is my cuddle girl. When i took her in, I put her head in my hand and was rubbing the side of her face and she was loving every minute of it. I am trying to let her rest now, but I peek in on her at least once an hour to make sure she is ok.

 

[lilspaz68]

Relax Peggy. I have always started intro's at 2 weeks and not once have I had an issue with a neutered boy. :thumbup:

 

[jorats]

My vet has always told me 2 weeks, 3 tops. I asked about the semen remaining hidden and she told me no. So I dunno.

 

[eagle]

My vet has told me 3 weeks to be on the safe side.

 

[hopefloats]

They had an open house today with Dr. Hatch, my favorite vet, at the spay clinic she is at now so my daughter and I went there.

She stopped me and said "testicles will not just grow back." She also told that even if they were still inside the body, generally they are sterile from the temperature that the body cavity has so even if it was there and came out, he probably still could not produce sperm that could have a baby.

She said it was possible for the stem to be left which could produce babies.

She said she wonders if Pika was pregnant, she said it is possible that was what was in her horn. She said if it was early enough and she was having problem that they embryos are only fluid filled so it isnt something you could easily feel but could see if you were looking for it. Since we were not, it is hard to say. the funny thing is, i didnt tell her this, she looked up her spay on her own. I found out she is Married to Kryder the office that takes care of other stuff LOL. He is the one who did skittles yesterday.

Since Dr Hatch is at a spay and neuter clinic only I was worried if she could do Templeton or not. Since basically it would be an exploratory with a possible neuter. She said that she can, and she is trying to get the girls in sooner so we can make sure no babies are there. She said with Templeton we can send off what is in there to see if sperm is there but she feels that she most likely will be able to tell once whatever is in there is out she can check it under a microscope at the kryder office. Since they do have a microscope at the kryder office and not at the spay clinic. Really glad she is married to him now :laugh4: I keep thinking it is scar tissue, it is something, infection, anything. I swear I hope it is. I do not want to hear that i paid for this and it didnt happen.

the two I am worried about now is Bindi and Isis, bindi is slow moving and isis has nipples you can now see. As well as bindi. I am freaking out like you would not believe. I dont know what to look for to feel them, I try but I cannot get a proper grip on her.

 

[TorachiKatashi]

Man, this is crazy. I don't know what I'd do in your situation. All I do know is that the vet's office would be paying off my future mortgage.

 

[Joanne]

Since you have a good relationship with Dr. Hatch, I would let her take care of things. I would focus on the girls right now as they are the ones having bleeding problems and may be possibly preggo. Once the girls are OK, then you can take care of the boys. You should dig out your receipt from the neuters to make sure that all the boys are listed and you were charged for it. Make a copy to take with you and save the original in a safe place. If it was shown that you were charged for work not performed, then at the very least you need to be reimbursed. You should get Dr. Hatch to do up a written report for you stating her findings and professional opinion as this will be your 'proof'. Then you can go back to them with the facts. And when you deal with them, try to be calm as they will respond better to you being nice rather than you trying to rip their heads off.
Good luck and don't forget to stop and breathe!

 

[jorats]

You must be going through hell with all of this... It's so good though that you have a vet you trust on your side right now.

 

[hopefloats]

I am just really tired of feeling testicles and checking females for bleeding. It make no sense to me how this is happening. For a girl a week to start bleeding for 3 weeks, two spays, one pregnancy, one that could of been, a boy who is totally unsure if he is fixed or not. The only good thing that is positive from this, is I took mally and the school girls out of the cage because everyone has so much darn attitude since they all started to get sick and when toby died (June 22). The only contact they had was out during play time, which doesnt clear them, but Lucy is such a little dominate thing that they spent their time battling for alpha with them, not mating them. I have only seen them chase Isis, bindi, and skittles. I don't think mally has ever been in heat, which is strange but she has never been chased by the males. I moved them out when Pika was tearing them up, but I found out later that was from pain, then isis's started doing it hardcore, pain related, then skittles, labor related, and bindi now, she lunged from a nest to get the school girl last night. that worries me. My girls have always been nest builders so that isnt a question, but the lunging from the nest freaks me out. That chubby little girl jumped faster than I have ever seen her jump to get that girl.

It has my mind in a constant state of worry. If i hear the hamsters play fight, I think oh no, babies. Then i see them two going at it LOL

I have fought hard to get these guys done. It is really upsetting to have to do this again. These emergency ones are killing me, I could of had all girls done for the cost of the 2 girls.

I seriously feel like i am watching an episode of "I didn't know i was pregnant-rat edition" and I really cannot change the channel.

I just cannot even begin to explain what an emotional roller coaster this is. I am worried about the girls first, but since two of the girls that lived with them, are fixed, then that only leaves the two that are not. The other 3 are super thin girls so it will be noticeable if they are pregnant. So far they are still the same thin girls they were. I need to have templeton checked, so I can figure out what is going on. To worry about if I need to rush to have the other 3 done or if I can breath for a minute. If not either way i have to figure out how in the hell skittles gave birth.

 

[jorats]

I know this is hugely stressful and probably what most of us dream about in our nightmares.
I did however lol at "I didn't know I was pregnant"