Extremely long gestation? Any hope?

[Phantom]

Hi everyone. I'm posting this because I am at my wits end here. I hope someone can give me some guidance.

I currently have two girls, phantom and Wisp. I also have boys, with two being recent additions. Long story short, one of the new boys slipped out of the cage when i was trying to get a different rat out. So I didn't know he was out, put the other boy back in, and then let the girls free roam. Boom. Pregnant. Both of them.

This was not at all planned and I would have never ever bred these girls (or any girls) on purpose. I love them, but they had recently been very ill, and just turned one. Anyway. This was August 2nd!!

On their normal due date, August 23 I saw babies kick in both sisters. But no signs of labor that I understood... Well a week goes by. Then another. And I think okay maybe they lost them and will reabsorb them. But then on the September 3rd I saw phantoms babies kick again. So as of last Thursday they were still alive.

It is now day 38 of pregnancy. I should give up hope, right? But then I see them kick on day 33 of pregnancy (which as far as I know isn't likely but it did happen) and it gave me hope. Now I don't know. They were nesting all weekend so I really thought it would happen but nope.

And before you ask, they have not had any further contact with them so the conception date isn't wrong.

Any advice? Any hope? Or should I just write the kittens off? I'm so sad about this all I've never had an oops litter and to think it isn't viable anymore...

 

[Kindness is free]

I am not an expert so only commenting to say sorry this happened hope you get answers soon x

 

[Phantom]

I am not an expert so only commenting to say sorry this happened hope you get answers soon x

Thank you for the support. This is my first pregnancy, with my soul mate rats, so I was so thrilled to get to raise their kids, but then this?? I'm hoping at this point that I don't lose my girls at least, babies at this point would be considered a bonus.

 

[lilspaz68]

you might have seen hiccups or some type of muscle movement but at 38 days they are NOT pregnant There is a delayed implantation of the egg IF a rat is bred on her post-partum heat but she would already have a litter and Nature does this to give the current litter a chance (4 weeks instead of 3 weeks) but in your case there are no pregnancies They must not have been in heat when they were running with the other boy.

 

[Phantom]

you might have seen hiccups or some type of muscle movement but at 38 days they are NOT pregnant There is a delayed implantation of the egg IF a rat is bred on her post-partum heat but she would already have a litter and Nature does this to give the current litter a chance (4 weeks instead of 3 weeks) but in your case there are no pregnancies They must not have been in heat when they were running with the other boy.

No, I saw a baby move inside her, multiple times. The latest being day 33. I have it on video if you would like to see it. It's definitely, without a doubt, a baby pushing and rolling against her side. Unless her organs suddenly decide to do the hula, it was a baby. A study on Google showed a doe giving birth as late as 34 days after conception, so it's not insane to think that day 33 with a very fat rat with nesting and baby movement and nipple development is still pregnant. I also read a breeder say the latest they saw was 10 days late, which is also around 34 days. So that's not a question. The question is 38 days without a doubt too late, even if day 33 they were alive. 33 days is rare but documented.

 

[Phantom]

It says I cannot attach a. mp4 file which is what the video is in. Do I need to upload to YouTube and put a link or something? Or just a different video file type.

 

[Phantom]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xt6TLey0T-02U0rY6GfNWbPgBfii9iCW/view?usp=drivesdk
Ah I figured it out. Here is phantom's baby kicking 33 days into pregnancy. Unless yall are gonna tell me she has an alien trying to bust out of her coincidentally or something haha

 

[lilspaz68]

How old is Phantom?

This is Lilith at about 8-9 weeks of age (she was kept with an adult male prior to me taking her in).

This is the Alien Dance just before birth. Normally you only see it a couple of days prior but they get very active 12-24 hours before the birth. If Mom allows you you can get her to lie on your flat fingers and you'll feel those little guys pushing and moving around.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/thhqkiwt4ntljlj/DSCF7524.MP4?dl=0
As I am sure you are aware the average gestation is 21-23 days with 22-23 days being most common. They can gain a lot of weight over that time and the best way to determine pregnancy and the health of the pregnancy is weighing daily at the same time each day.

 

[Phantom]

P

How old is Phantom?

This is Lilith at about 8-9 weeks of age (she was kept with an adult male prior to me taking her in).

This is the Alien Dance just before birth. Normally you only see it a couple of days prior but they get very active 12-24 hours before the birth. If Mom allows you you can get her to lie on your flat fingers and you'll feel those little guys pushing and moving around.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/thhqkiwt4ntljlj/DSCF7524.MP4?dl=0
As I am sure you are aware the average gestation is 21-23 days with 22-23 days being most common. They can gain a lot of weight over that time and the best way to determine pregnancy and the health of the pregnancy is weighing daily at the same time each day.

Phantom is a year old as of this month. The factors that would increase her gestation are her age being a first time mom, and the fact that she was small and recovering from illness when she conceived. So I'm assuming one or more of those factors delayed implantation. I know the gestation is usually 21-24. But without a doubt she had babies alive at day 33. Since it's already a rare gestation length, I'm wondering what sort of signs would give me a hint that they are no longer viable. I have found not a drop of blood in the cage for example, I check every day. If they tried to give birth and no babies ever came out, there would be blood right? I wish she would lay on her back more often so I can look for more baby movement but I haven't had luck.

Does anyone have any info on how long it takes full term babies to reabsorb, if they died at some point after last Thursday? Or do full term babies always... Come out. I'm sad.

 

[skylamps]

Is it at all possible for them to see a vet? I know that's basic advice, but this sounds really hard . I hope they're all okay.

 

[lilspaz68]

Start weighing her daily at the same time. If she was pregnant she will.continue to lose weight.
As long as she acts healthy she's fine. Does she look pregnant? At a year old even for a first litter she would gain at a very minimum 50-70 grams. For my rescues (babies to oldies) I found that were gaining over 10 g per day in the last few days before birth.
I have never heard of any live pregnancies at this stage though.

There's a ton of articles on ratguide regarding pregnancy etc.

http://ratguide.com/breeding/

 

[Kindness is free]

I watched the video. The babies ‘moving’... is it possible those are uterine contractions which are moving the babies ?

 

[lilspaz68]

usually at the very end of the pregnancy you can feel the little fetuses moving around. Unless its a tiny litter but then you wouldn't see much of anything as they are not packed in like sardines pushing them out the sides of the abdomen.
All fetuses start moving around nearer to the birth. its called prenatal or fetal movement and its actually to do with developing their neurons and brains. All I can find on this is scientific studies which are either so difficult to read or are disturbing on their process that I won't link them.

The uterine contractions look very different. I found this video where it shows the contractions of a pet rat that looks about right