Chirping - Update pg 3

The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Exodog said:
I'll definitely keep a very close eye on her activity/condition/behaviour and keep a running record. So far I check her breathing sounds once in the morning and once at night (no change so far, and no 'lung' sounds), and I always watch her behaviour for signs of lethargy or change in typical behaviour. Is there anything else I can watch for that would indicate it's something worrisome?

Our rat Nibbler was recently diagnosed with pneumonia. Her symptoms were... basically chirping (which eventually turned into gasping), weight loss, and not having enough energy to play/run. She didn't have a lot of porphyrin, but she did get rather puffy. The vet explained that she's using so much energy just to breathe that she doesn't have any left over. That's really all I noticed out of the ordinary with her.

He gave us Baytril first, which helped a lot really quickly but it didn't fix it (he said it might not since we got her in too late :wallbang: ) so we immediately brought her back and he gave us Doxy as well.

Just keep watching, I suppose. It sucks not knowing but if it is URI nip it as soon as you can so it doesn't grow into something worse! (...which I'm sure you were planning to do. haha)
 
Roo said:
Our rat Nibbler was recently diagnosed with pneumonia. Her symptoms were... basically chirping (which eventually turned into gasping), weight loss, and not having enough energy to play/run. She didn't have a lot of porphyrin, but she did get rather puffy. The vet explained that she's using so much energy just to breathe that she doesn't have any left over. That's really all I noticed out of the ordinary with her.
haha) [/color][/size]

Arthur doesn't have any of those symptoms, other than the chirping. He has more energy than ever, and he's gaining weight. (he was way tiny when I got him) He's wrestling with the babies, and he isn't breathing hard, he just chirps, at night... like he's trying to keep me awake.
 
handmeafish said:
Arthur doesn't have any of those symptoms, other than the chirping. He has more energy than ever, and he's gaining weight. (he was way tiny when I got him) He's wrestling with the babies, and he isn't breathing hard, he just chirps, at night... like he's trying to keep me awake.

I've *heard* people say that their rats will chirp/chatter when they're happy/excited. But I haven't really experienced this.
Nibblers sister, Nein, also had pneumonia (I got them from a pet store...) and she was chirpy since we got her but didn't develop any other symptoms for months. We got her help late because we thought the chirping was completely normal. If I'd known otherwise, I would have at least been monitoring more :(

I think as long as you keep an eye on it and listen to the lungs daily, etc - if it is a URI - you'll catch it before it gets horrible and out of control.
 
One of my first rats chirped on and off. I mentioned it to the vet but she never heard it when we were there for check ups or heard any noises from her lungs. I just figured she was vocalizing. One day I noticed that she was less energetic and I mentioned it to my now husband but he convinced me she was just having an off day. By the time I did take her to the vet a few days later I could smell the pus from her pulmonary abscesses. She was on meds for a month but didn't recover.

Rats don't vocalize. Sometimes they chirp or make nasal sounds once in a while because there is some irritation in their nasal passage, but if they do it consistently I would be concerned. Maybe it will never develop into something but maybe it will. If it were my rat that was chirping for two weeks, I would be getting antibiotics to see if I could get rid of it. It's much easier to treat an URI than pneumonia and the prognosis is much better.
 
Interesting..... :think:
Delly-Shoes did that on and off her whole life. (34 months)
I just thought it was her bitching at me. :lol:
She was always her zippy zappy self.
It amazes me that after 4+ years of having rats, I still have stuff to learn.
 
Nekopan said:
Watch the videos on this site: http://www.joinrats.com/gallery/1112837 ... 8532_uBgFS

Does the sound match to any of those? I have only heard chirping/monkey noises in the context of a URI.
It doesn't quite sound entirely like either. It almost sounds like a mixture of the two, and earlier today when she was out and about I didn't hear it at all.
I'm going to try to get a video up on youtube. I will link here once it's up.


ETA: I didn't know symptoms could hide themselves so well. I thought there would be more warning for something as serious as pneumonia.



ETA:
It's not very rhythmic, and it's not very wheezy, what do you think, Shackers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXb_big8BXU
 
I had a girl develop rapid-onset pneumonia, she had to be put to sleep three weeks later after no treatment worked. Pneumonia is so serious, and it can come up with NO warning :( I Hate pneumonia almost as much as I hate pulmonary abscesses.

I'll hear the odd squeak, the odd hiccup, but that's normal. If I hear ANY kind of noise in the respiratory tract (no matter if it's nasal or deeper) for more than a week, that's generally a sign that something is wrong. My vet, who's had personal rats and continues to participate in rat-related studies and conferences, agrees with me. I've never treated these types of symptoms and had them NOT go away - every time I've treated, the noises stopped, so that tells me that yes, ongoing "chirping" is a sign of a URI, or at least the beginnings of one.

If your vet is Victoria Road Animal Hospital - I go there with my kitties. Both vets there are extremely nice, but neither of them are very up-to-date when it comes to rat medication. For example, they still use the old dosages for Metacam, and they do not know that Baytril needs to be given for more than 10 days, nor do they think that Baytril + Doxy is a good combo. They'll know to give you revo for lice, but they have no clue about giving steroids for neurological symptoms.

They're very nice people, but definitely not the best rat vets in the area (unless they've increased their knowledge since I was last there!)
 
I do try to bring them as much information from here as I possibly can. I'm still learning about all of this stuff, and if what you say is still correct, then they are as well. At this point I can't really afford to switch vets, but I can bring in lots of information with me for them.
I know chirping often is a sign, but what if it's totally unaccompanied? Is it really possible to have -no- warning for something so serious?

ETA: When I was in with Moog last for his URI I told them I wanted Doxy with the Baytril as I had heard in many instances that Baytril was just not enough. I explained the reasoning to the vet as per this link >> http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm << from lilspaz. She gladly obliged and gave me both medications 2 times daily for 14 days total.
 
Listened to the video... mine sounds most like the one from group 5 which makes me feel a bit better...
I've never watched him chirp, because he stops as soon as I get up to look... he's doing it at night, when its dark... Maybe i'll try to get a sound recording.
 
I know chirping often is a sign, but what if it's totally unaccompanied? Is it really possible to have -no- warning for something so serious?

Libra developed a URI in late November or early December. I noticed something off with her, but heard no odd lung noises or porph, so I chalked it up to having a bad day. I thought the same when she got consistently puffy and lazy. Thought she was just getting older and slowing down. This was my first experience with rats aging, and I now know that such a sudden change is NOT normal. By the time she started dropping weight and breathing heavily and I took her to the vet, she was very sick. Soon after she stopped eating or taking her meds, even with every yummy thing I could think of.

She passed away within a week of seeing the vet, and three weeks after the initial symptoms. Don't know the exact cause, but Chelle and I think pneumonia that she caught because the URI was so advanced and had weakened her immune system. This came very fast with very little warning signs until it was too late.

I regret not doing anything about the early symptoms soooo much. I feel like I let her down and indirectly caused her death. I would hate for you to feel what I do if something happens. I would hate to think my pet died because I wanted to save a bit of money and avoid a vet visit. Dr Fleming at Guelph Animal Hospital is VERY good and knows her stuff with rat diagnosis and meds, and can probably see you this weekend (they are open both saturday and sunday). I know she is more expensive but these are the exact situations that credit cards were made for. Please think about going sooner than the 15th.
 
The previous post about the visit on the 5th was in regards to Moog's medication (New Guy is also going in for a check-up on his neuter).


My room mate just got a ferret, and she is going in to the same vet I use on Monday to be checked over and revo'd. I'll bring up Neon's condition and ask him to send me home with some medication for her if it can happen that fast.
That's way scary, and to be honest I didn't know it could come up so suddenly.
Should I just ask for Baytril since her symptoms are mild? Would 2 weeks be a sufficient course for the medication?
 
The previous post about the visit on the 5th was in regards to Moog's medication (New Guy is also going in for a check-up on his neuter).

My bad I read 15th, and thought we were talking about the same rat, lol.
 
Update:

I was giving Neon a listen this morning, and the typical pipping noise was not present. However, when I rat-phoned her I could faintly hear a little bit of a wheezing in her lungs. My vet is closed today, but I have an appointment for my room-mate's ferret tomorrow.

Should I bring her back in, or just save her the added stress of transportation and ask for the medication(s)?
Should she be on both Baytril and Doxy, or is just the Baytril sufficient in a situation where the resp. noises are very mild?
 
I would take her in just to be sure and if it has moved into the lungs I would start with just Baytril. If you don't see an improvement within the first few days then you can add doxy, unless your vet thinks (from listening to her lungs) that she needs both.
 
Thanks, I just don't like having them on too many ABS if they don't actually need them. I've heard it can decrease the effectiveness of them if they're given too much.

I'd also like to try something to help with Bif's breathing. I was wondering if there is any home remedy I could give her for her constant poryph build-up. I'd prefer to try something at home before going with meds, for the reasons above, and since it's not something that will ever go away entirely. Is there anything I can do at home for that kind of thing?
 
Aw, I hope it's a quick fix.

Nibbler was given Baytril only for 3 weeks twice a day. Improvement was VERY noticeable within' 3 days (but she looked pretty rough) - I assume since it sounds like a mild case the three weeks should work! ...but if it doesn't sound clear (even if the lungs sound alright but the chirping is still there) you'll probably want to bring her back in
 
Exodog said:
Thanks, I just don't like having them on too many ABS if they don't actually need them. I've heard it can decrease the effectiveness of them if they're given too much.

I'd also like to try something to help with Bif's breathing. I was wondering if there is any home remedy I could give her for her constant poryph build-up. I'd prefer to try something at home before going with meds, for the reasons above, and since it's not something that will ever go away entirely. Is there anything I can do at home for that kind of thing?

The issue with antibiotics resistance is if they are given them when they don't already have an infection, or if they are under dosed. It is pretty safe to say your rat has an infection though from it's symptoms. Giving two antibiotics to a rat with an infection will not cause resistance in the future.

Also, in cases of suspected infection, rat owners tend to try antibiotics first because of how quickly rats can get sick and die-it is far better to not be able to use one Ntibiotic in the future than to hold off and possibly lose your rat to infection while waiting for confirmation.

As to the porphyrin buildup, what makes you think it will never go away? It's not normal for a rat to have excess porphyrin. As you know it can be caused by stress, or illness. If she is having breathing issues, it is likely from that, and treating the infection will take care of it.

For home remedies, the only real home treatment is echinacea, but it does not replace antibiotics. It helps their immune system, but will not fight infection.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top