Advice needed: 2 tumors. Erm......

[crumbilina]

The decisions has been very difficult. I still don't know what I want to do.

Thing is, money is not an issue. I can have the surgery done no problem I just can't decide if it is the right thing to do for her.
Her health otherwise is fine. She is running around, happy, eating, drinking, etc... like normal. This is what is making the decision so difficult. She is healthy, I just don't want her to go in for surgery after surgery after surgery. I fear that once these 2 are removed, there will be more pop up. Especially since it was about a month and a half after her previous tumor was removed that the one popped up THEN it was about a month after that that the one beside it showed up. What happens if I go through with the surgery and not even a month later another pops up? I did talk to the vet about spaying and he said that she is too old to have that done.

I think I need to bite the bullet and just take some time off to go and see Dr. Gerald in Kitchener. Its just that it takes me an hour plus to get there and then that long back. BUT I think that in order for me to actually trust what my vet says I think I will have to go. Especially since I found out that prednisilone is actually a generic brand of prednisone and not actually the metabolits (which is prednisolone) like the vet had told me. This really bugs me. I know its the difference of one letter, HOWEVER if you prescribe a medication, you better know what it is.

I love this little rat so much too, and I personally am a fighter. I would fight any illness tooth and nail. BUT recently I learned that sometimes you just need to "give up" and I really cant tell what situation this is. My head is so muttled with no idea what to do and the vet really didn't offer any suggestions.

I have no idea... at least I have the prednisilone to give to her while I try and make this decision.

I just can't tell what is right...

 

[mamarat]

I've had my girl spayed at 27 months during her tumor removal. She recovered fine. Good luck with your sweetie.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

:hugs: What a crappy decision...I wish I could offer some advice but I have no experience with tumors.

 

[crumbilina]

I have decided I am taking her to see Dr. Gerald.

I'm at a loss. For the first time in a long time I have NO idea what is the right thing to do... NO idea! It is very frustrating.

He will at least be able to give me a diagnosis that I trust and will talk with me about what I could do. I should have just taken her there to begin with, I knew that I would be taking her there anyway, well, IF I can get an appointment which I should be able to do.

IF I did have her tumors removed, I would ask about spaying as well since it is all in the same area. What have others experienced with tumors coming back after a spay? I guess if mamarat had one of her girls spayed at this age, it is possible that Cocoa would be fine. I am just not sure that the 2 removals plus the spay all in the same area is a good idea?

Bleh! I hate these decisions.

 

[M0onkist]

One thing about the spay is from the sound of it, the tumors and uterus would be in similar locations - I might be wrong, of course, but your vet might be able to remove the uterus through one of the tumor incisions, or just make the tumor incision a little larger than it would otherwise be so he can remove the uterus. That's how they did it with Princess, because she went in to have her umbilical hernia patched up. The vet just cut a slightly larger hole and did the spay at the same time.

 

[crumbilina]

I was hoping that this could happen if I took her in. I really don't want her to have more incisions than those that are necessary. Last time (I freaked out more then I should have though) she managed to chew on her stitches. I have a feeling, that because of the location of these 2 tumors, it will be next to impossible to prevent her from chewing. I think if I do have her in for the tumor removals she will have a spay as well. I will not put her through it without the spay. I should have spayed her last time... hindsight is 20/20 though.

How do people choose whether or not to have the surgery? What factors are taken into consideration? Last time she went in it was obvious what I should do so I didn't really have to weigh out my options. This time I do, but don't really know what factors to take a look at or anything like that...

 

[crumbilina]

So I caved. I'm going to my TRUSTED vet on friday afternoon.

I'll see what he has to say and then I will proceed from there. Atleast he will be able to offer me his professional opinion instead of shrugging and just saying well...

Although I must clarify one thing about this new vet. While I do not trust their knowledge of rats, they treated Cocoa very well and gave me the medications that I requested. They were decently priced and even eliminated to exam fee for me last week when I was in. The vet was very nice and considerate and I WOULD recommend this vet to someone who is in need of a cat/dog vet OR minor respiratory issues in a rat. I would NOT recommend to anyone who has serious or mystery illnesses in their rats. He was very gentle with Cocoa and very polite to me. He listened to what I had to say and then would tell me why he would or wouldnot like to do what I recommended. All in all a good vet, its just unfortunate that he knows so very little about rats. I just wanted to say this becuase I feel like I have said that it is a terrible clinic when really it is not. It is just not super rat knowledgable. I will continue to go there for minor issues as well, so that has to say something

There, I feel better

 

[mamarat]

Good luck with your sweetie. Maybe in time this vet will eventually learn more to treat your rats.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

I don't think you caved at all, Dr. Gerald is the most knowledgeable in the area so it only makes sense that you will feel more comfortable with the advice he gives you and I would do the same if I were in your situation. *fingers crossed* for some good news.

 

[crumbilina]

When I was giving Cocoa her meds this morning I noticed she has a gray whisker :heart:

It made me smile

 

[M0onkist]

Aw! Kisses for Cocoa and all the girls, and fingers (and ratty fingers) crossed that all goes well with the vet!

 

[crumbilina]

Back from the vet! With good news and bad news.

The good news is we were able to come to a decision about the surgery. The bad news is that Dr. Gerald doesn't feel comfortable doing it. He said that the one is so firmly rooted that he thinks it might be intertwined with muscle and/or attached to her vaginal wall somehow. He was worried that she would hemorrhage or that he would be cutting the urethra. He asked if I wanted to referred to the exotic vet in Guelph for the surgery... I said no. If there is a chance with him, there is a chance with this other vet as well, and I don't know him, nor do I trust Guelph... (long story about a suffering cat - It is part of the reason I trust so few vets).

SO we both decided no for the surgery. There is just too much risk.

BUT there is a bit of hope. JUST a BIT though. He gave me baytril to have her on. He said that its possible (very very slim chance but its worth a try) that the original antibiotics stopped working or weren't strong enough. I took all of the info and whatnot about the meds from the other vet with me, but there was no concentration amounts on any of them. So we are HOPING that it just wasn't strong enough and that she just needs more to get rid of it. So I start her on baytril tomorrow and wean her off the prednisilone beginning tomorrow morning. I hope it is this, but I'm not getting my hopes up too high... Because I don't think it is...

So all in all a worth while trip. I learned something too. Next time, just go see Dr. Gerald when it is anything but a small respiratory infection. I am kicking myself for not going sooner. If I would have, she could have already had the damn thing removed. But hindsight is 20/20 AND that would have put me right in the middle of when grandma was sick so I doubt that it would have worked out well for me anyhow. You live, you learn... and boy did I learn.

OH AND hahaha
When Dr. Gerald was examining her lump, he was feeling around and trying to see where it was attached and all that kinda stuff... Cocoa was bruxxing and boggling!!!
Then he proceeded to tell me how sweet she was... she really is :heart: I fed her cheerios all the way home as she bruxxed and boggled in the car.
*sigh* my little sweetie :heart: With her one gray whisker

 

[M0onkist]

What a sweetheart that she took what must have been an uncomfortable examination and just enjoyed it! Kisses from me, the Pips, and of course Mr. Honeycomb (who would cheerfully volunteer to be her pillow or cagemate any day of the week!).

I'm so sorry that he couldn't really do anything, hon - I hope the Baytril does work!

 

[jorats]

It's not the best news but at least a small amount of hope.
He sounds like a good vet.

 

[crumbilina]

Thanks Moonkist! I will give her kisses from all of your gang and you!
BUT I think it would be up to Cocoa if Mr. H. could be her roomie. She hasn't liked ANYONE! Oh the drama! I thought that maybe she would like the new girls and that she could room with them for a while... but no way! It would be entertaining to see how she reacted to him tho. I think the problem is that the others are too busy/young for her. Maybe they would work well :wink:

I am actually "Ok" with the decision. I obviously wish it could be different, but it isn't, so I can deal. At least there are a couple things left to try. I have dealt with far worse. Plus, she still has time AND Christmas is coming! She is going to have the best one yet

I cant believe that with the amount of testing that goes on for human drugs on rats that there is not a whole lot of rattie "medicine". I wish that could benefit BOTH species... wouldn't that be grand? I mean, obviously those anti-tumor/Anti-cancer drugs have been tested and worked on rats... why not give them to rats to medicate as well? I dunno, just my opinion... Anyway...

And Jo: He is a good vet :nod: I highly recommend to anyone in the area

 

[M0onkist]

Mr. Honeycomb specializes in being an incredibly laid back (read: lazy!) omega rat. He's at the bottom of the pile, and as long as he has someone to boss him around, he's as happy as a clam. He's a surprisingly good nurse, too - he took incredibly gentle care of Chance after Chance had his strokes.

But I digress - the way I know you made the right decision is that you're at peace with it - that truly is the best (if not only) sign that you're doing the right thing. I had to make that decision with Chance, not to put him to sleep prematurely - he actually got loads better after his first stroke, but had a lot of fight in him even after the second. So when he passed, I knew I'd done what he most wanted, to support him, love him, and spend lots of time near the end with him, and it actually didn't hurt as much to let him go.

Eesh, I sound morose tonight! Obviously I hope Cocoa lives many many months longer!

 

[mamarat]

It must be such a relief to be able to come to a decision. Sending all the best for your sweetie.

 

[SQ]

She sounds like such a wonderful little girl.
Hope the med change helps.

 

[crumbilina]

I think Cocoa and Mr. H. would make a fabulous pair then! She likes being boss and quiet haha

First day of meds, and guess who almost got bitten by a rat who has NEVER bit anyone... ever?!
I made the mistake of coming in between her and her meds haha. Luckily she realized that my finger was not the syringe and didn't clamp down... stupid me. She proceeded to apologetically groom said finger though. I wish all my rats were an enthused about taking meds as she is.

PS: I will update with some tumor pictures tonight, this way I can visually track the progress of the size of the lump and not forget what size it was a couple days ago.

 

[crumbilina]

I wish that I had good news, but, I don't.

The abs have not really done anything. The mass is still growing and at this point I will assume that it is indeed a tumor. I have abs for the next 2 weeks for her, and she has only been on them for 4 days so I think I will continue for the next few days - until day 7. If there are no changes then I think I will take her off of them considering they are flavoured with what I can only assume is sugar.

So, not very good news.
I decided against the pictures becuase she was getting irritated with all the pictures that I was taking of her... area... lol I didn't want to stress her out too much.
Luckily she seems to be acting normal.

When I inspected her tonight though, I noticed that her lump looked a bit red and irritiated. Any suggestions about how that can be remedied in the future? Since it will begin to drag. I assume that people here have dealt with the effects of friction on tumors... ANY warnings about what to watch for would be appreciated.

Thanks to everyone who has helped with this so far. I'm glad a found this forum... I would have no idea what to look for or what to do without the advice that I have sorted through here.