Where to get your next rat

[benzin.fox]

MOST EXCELLENT QUESTIONS!!!

I totally see what you are saying with the "free rat included!" I guess dodgy things will always happen but i'm interested to know if they've covered it. If not i'll send a few emails and check it out. The people on the websites I listed always reply. They're really committed to educating the public. So if i can't answer your questions, please send them an email! or perhaps i should and post it here! (or we both can..horrray..yes,im tired)

I'll do a search and bring the bill up in full..hold on..

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/P ... enDocument

paste that link into your browser and open the document to read the bill.

You've really got me thinking now (it's almost 2am here..i should be in bed and it hurts!)
-My guess is that selling means for profit gain.
-the legislation is for all mammals (not livestock and i think it doesnt go for farmers working dogs and animals used for other purposes)
-i think a registered breeder must be breeding animals with papers and proof of heritage/lines and so on. I'm not sure on how to 'become' one because i've never been interested in breeding. For someone to be registered and then churn out mixed breeds sounds stupid and if they havent covered that then we definitely need to be sending some emails. *i just started reading back over the bill and saw that it says "recognised breeder" which i find dodgy and that many people will find loopholes to combat it's efficacy. I'm going to send some emails.
Thank you!

I'm so glad you brought up these points. I know i get carried away in fantasy land thinking about how awesome it would be without these horrible people exploiting animals and I know these points havent even entered my mind yet.

 

[benzin.fox]

I just went back over the bill (quickly and tiredly)

-you can rehome oopsie litters,abandon animals or strays from your own home.-but im confused about selling or not-even if to cover the cost of vaccinations/food while in your care.I have emailed clover moore and will see what happens from there.

I think i need to revist this in the morning.I'm just confusing myself!


Recognised breeders
16 Recognised breeders must comply with certain standards
(1) The regulations may prescribe standards that are required to be
complied with by recognised breeders, including standards relating to
the confinement, carriage and welfare of mammals.
(2) The Minister may withdraw the recognition of a recognised breeder if
the Minister is satisfied that the recognised breeder has failed to comply
with any of the standards prescribed by the regulations that apply to the
breeder.

recognised breeder means:
(a) in relation to the sale or advertising of a dog—a member of the
Royal NSW Canine Council Ltd or any other body recognised by
the Minister, or
(b) in relation to the sale or advertising of a cat—a member of the
NSW Cat Fanciers Association Inc or Waratah State Cat Alliance
Inc or any other body recognised by the Minister, or
(c) in relation to the sale or advertising of a species of mammal other
than a cat or a dog—a member of the body or association
recognised by the Minister in relation to mammals of that species.

sell includes:
(a) cause or permit to sell, and
(b) auction or exchange, and
(c) agree or attempt to sell, and
(d) expose, send, forward or deliver for sale, and
(e) barter, and
(f) transfer ownership for any amount, whether or not that amount is
expressed to involve cost-recovery only (for example, the
recovery of the reasonable cost of feeding, keeping, desexing and microchipping the mammal sold) or by any means (including
gift), and
(g) hire or cause to be hired, and
(h) display for sale or hire.


shop means any place, building, stall, tent, vehicle or boat in which
mammals or goods are sold or offered or exposed for sale by retail, or
from which mammals or goods are sold by retail, and includes any
portion of a building that is separated from the rest of the building by a
permanent and substantial partition or wall and in which mammals or
goods are sold or offered or exposed for sale by retail, but does not
include an animal shelter, council pound, veterinary practice or
prescribed private home.
veterinary practice means a business that provides veterinary services.

 

[Sorraia]

From: http://www.leadtheway.org.au/aboutthebill.html

Put simply, the objective of the Animals (Regulation of Sale) Bill is to protect the lives and well-being of dogs and cats by prohibiting their sale at pet shops and markets, regulating the advertising of mammals and ensuring that prospective purchasers are fully informed of the animal’s special needs and requirements.

I don’t know about this – Limiting/prohibiting sale of animals in pet stores and amongst backyard breeders is great, but what about responsible breeders? Some of these bills that are being petitioned start out with great intentions, but can actually end up legislating responsible breeders out of existence. It is expensive and hard work to be a responsible breeder. Depending on what the regulations do or say, this could end up in requiring responsible breeders to basically do everything out of pocket without ANY compensation what so ever.

After reading through the bill itself, as good as it sounds at first glance, I personally am a little hesitant to support it as it is written now. As someone else pointed out, it sounds like it is trying to legislate too much. It sounds like it will make it excessively difficult for responsible breeders to stay “in business”. It’s great that it will encourage adoption from shelters, that is certainly needed. It is also great that it will prohibit sale of animals from pet stores and other markets, as well as the sale of animals to minors. But I’m hesitant on the regulations of private breeders. We definitely need to get irresponsible breeders out of business, but it can be very hard to do so while not also hurting responsible breeders. It is already expensive business to breed an animal responsibly. No money is to be made at all after all the care of the animals is taken into account. But bills like this make it even more expensive and harder to operate, by adding more fees, making necessary advertisement harder, and possibly regulating what adoption fees a breeder can or cannot ask for.

This particular bill also requires that all breeders be a member of an organization approved by the Ministry. I want to know what sort of process is involved in approving an organization. Not all clubs and associations are equal, and some have much to be desired. For example, the big club in my area, which has often been looked up to and held in high regard by others in the country, claims to take no stance on the practice of culling. However, almost all board members of that club not only do take a very strong stand on culling, but actually encourage culling. Not only that, but they encourage culling so much that they will not even place rats that are being shown by a breeder known to not cull or to reject the practice of culling. This same organization has practically celebrated a so-called "responsible" breeder when said breed bought a rat from a pet store for breeding. Why is this? Because said rat was a near-perfect hooded. Hooded rats were already well established in responsible breeding, and yet this breeder felt the need to purchase one from a pet store to "improve" on the rats already in the breeding program. And when said rat produced other very nice hooded markings, the breeder was celebrated in this club for such a feat. But we all know breeding pet store animals, those with unknown lineage and unknown histories, is irresponsible at best. Yet in this situation it was practically encouraged, and definitely condoned. Is this the kind of organization that the Ministry would approve of? If so, this can result in some very irresponsible behaviors on the part of breeders in order to be able to stay with it and be held in high regard.

 

[benzin.fox]

I like your thoughts. The bill is definitely in it's early stages. I definitely agree about the costs of responsible breeders and I actually emailed Clover Moore over a few different questions like that. I'm glad you've brought them up to me since now I can seek answers.

 

[benzin.fox]

I AM SO UPSET!

I got a response from the emails i sent. blah blah. great responses apart from the second one.... the bill has been changed to ONLY CATS AND DOGS. :sad3: :cry3:

Apparently the government reacted very negatively about it regarding other mammals. WHAT A JOKE!


This better at LEAST stop the "doodling" "labracoodle" "spoodle" ********..i'm so annoyed right now!

 

[jorats]

That really sucks. It's horrible that it won't pertain to all mammals. :redhot:

 

[rat.charmer]

It's a start though. Amendments to laws are easier than getting a full Bill passed - once the cats and dogs are in, that's when people can start petitioning for a more inclusive law.

 

[shade]

I seen this myself... It was a pet store in Barrie ON. They had two tanks, one was fancy rats, the other was feeder rats. The difference? All the fancy rats were dumbos... the feeder rats were all barebacks and split caps, beautiful colours of beige, mink, blacks. Because of ear placement... these rats were doomed to suffer a horrible ordeal.

Petstores by my house do that. A lot of it is because they don't really know what a Dumbo rat is. They think it's a special species and don't realize that it's just the ear placement. Like the big pet store "fancy's pets" by my house; I asked them if they had any rats for pets there and she said all they had were dumbo rats. I asked her what they were and she told me "well they're kind of like the hairless rats... but they're larger with big ears and they have more fur" At this time I didn't know what a dumbo rat was so I beleived her.

And the petsmart near my house will sell top-ear rats for about $8-$10 and Dumbos for $10-$15.

 

[PiedPiper]

Animals in pet stores come from mills, backyard breeders or are bred in the store ... ethical breeders do not sell to pet stores .... so regardless of what happens to animals sold in pet stores, supporting pet stores = supporting their practices (cruelty to animals).

This is 100% true. ETHICAL BREEDERS DO NOT SELL TO PET STORES! I spent most of my teens and as a young adult working in pet shops, because of this, I will never, ever purchase another pet from a pet store ... EVER!

 

[Sorraia]

I AM SO UPSET!

I got a response from the emails i sent. blah blah. great responses apart from the second one.... the bill has been changed to ONLY CATS AND DOGS. :sad3: :cry3:

Apparently the government reacted very negatively about it regarding other mammals. WHAT A JOKE!


This better at LEAST stop the "doodling" "labracoodle" "spoodle" b******t..i'm so annoyed right now!

Grrr.... :redhot:

At least it's a SMALL step in the right direction. If the bill can be passed for cats and dogs, and it WORKS, it's another small step to start making ammends to include other mammals. Start there, with a little extra work, you can move on. Unfortuantely we can't always accomplish everything in one step, but have to take multiple baby steps to get to a final resolution.

 

[benzin.fox]

i agree,it's definitely a start. a good start..but still i'm dissapointed! ...and not so excited about the bill now. I feel like giving in on it all..but i won't! *take that irresponsible breeders!*

 

[benzin.fox]

Animals in pet stores come from mills, backyard breeders or are bred in the store ... ethical breeders do not sell to pet stores .... so regardless of what happens to animals sold in pet stores, supporting pet stores = supporting their practices (cruelty to animals).

This is 100% true. ETHICAL BREEDERS DO NOT SELL TO PET STORES! I spent most of my teens and as a young adult working in pet shops, because of this, I will never, ever purchase another pet from a pet store ... EVER!

AGREE!

 

[Mandy]

I haven't seen any pet shops near me that sell live feeder rats or mice or anything of the sort. If my work started to sell them I'd quit for sure.

We only keep rats two to a tank and we always make sure to give them and the other animals attention. I always bring them veggies and stuff Mind you, I hate seeing them get sold to people for their snotty little kids, I can just tell they're gonna forget about them in a week.

I'd never get a rat from a pet shop again after what I've heard. The place I got my boys from was horrible, and they sell kittens! I saw a little one all on it's own in a little cage

 

[henry's_mum]

I'll always get rescues personally.
I've got 3 rescue bunns, 1 rescue dog, and 2 rescue rats!
1 dog from a reputable breeder, and a fish...

But I find the rescued ones to have the biggest thank-you personalities...

:heart:

 

[jorats]

But I find the rescued ones to have the biggest thank-you personalities...

So true!