Rosie's tumor-she didn't make it =(

[Slapdash]

So my heart rat Rosie is now just about 2/12, she had three mammary tumors removed over the summer and then another developed so we had it removed and had her spayed as well. Towards the end of October I noticed a small lump developing around the spay incision area, but when I called the vet and looked up a few previous posts on here it seemed lie it was just scar tissue, then in December it grew! So we went to the vet last week and he said it's deep and it could be one of two things. Basically one being bad the other being a sort of abscess he could drain. He think's it's a tissue reaction that's growing because her body is reacting badly to the spay or something like that. And he said let's see if it grows much more and as long as it doesn't and it doesn't appear to be bothering her to leave it be for now. It really didn't seem to be bothering her but I wasn't completely happy with that answer but at the same time he basically said with her age and how deep it is and with that being such an invasive surgery that it wouldn't be an option to operate for now, unless it became an urgent matter we may consider it. That's pretty much everything he said so I've been keeping a close eye on it since and trying to do my own research but I can't find anything about this sort of complication post spay.
Then tonight I picked her up and pretty much over night it grew practically another inch in all directions and now she seems to be favoring the leg it's closest to and having some trouble getting around also do to her age in part. I just broke down when I saw it she doesn't deserve this, she's so amazing. Does anyone have any idea what this could be or what we can do? I'm most likely going to be getting a second opinion and I'll be calling my regular vet back but in the meantime I was hoping someone would have some insight on this?

Thank you!

 

[hopefloats]

I think some suctures can cause issues. Sebastian has it now he was done a bit ago. Can you get a picture?

 

[Slapdash]

Sorry it took forever for the pictures to upload...
This one was 10 days ago...

And here it is today,it's hard to see from that angle the amount it's grown, it grew more outward and over her leg more...

Thanks

 

[hopefloats]

I never seen an abscess get that big. Does it feel hard? or squishy?


I personally would be going in there with her new friend and telling them that goiter is not normal for any spay.

I couldnt even say if it is spay related or not. I would ask for them to check it out regardless but that is fast growing, 10 days , imagine another 10 days. It will rupture.

 

[hopefloats]

It almost looks dark like an abscess but if that is, I do not want to be there when that pops.

 

[SQ]

Absolutely not normal for a spay.
I'm thinking tumor but hopefully i am wrong.
Imo, she needs to see a good rat vet asap

 

[victoria]

When you take her to a vet you should get fine needle aspiration done to see what is inside so you know what you're dealing with. It could be a tumour, an abscess (I doubt it), or, hopefully, a seroma. A seroma is a fluid build-up that collects in voids left after surgery sometimes. They're more likely to occur if the vet has not put internal sutures but can sometimes happen anyway. If it is a seroma, my vet told me it's best not to have it drained because the pressure it creates can help seal the leak (it's late and that's the best way I can think of phrasing it), although she did tell me to give Metacam to help with the inflammation.

I hope it's something treatable and she recovers quickly :hugs:

 

[Slapdash]

Thanks for all the quick replies, it is very hard, not like I would think an abcess would be but I have only ever dealt with one other tiny abcess and it was nothing like this. He mentioned it cold be a reaction to the sutures. I have no idea I just knew as soon as it started to grow it wasn't good, I hope it's treatable as well.I'l be calling the other vet we use tomorrow to see how soon I can get her in. Do you think I should be giving her some abs or something for pain in the meantime? She's only started to look a little uncomfortable today and last night because it's basically in the way of her leg bending properly when she walks :sad3:

 

[Slapdash]

Just wanted to update, I got an appointment with a new vet we haven't seen before but she does see exotics, we'll be going tomorrow afternoon, please keep your fingers crossed. Thanks again!

 

[Joanne]

I agree that one of the first things that should be done is a FNA (Fine Needle Aspiration). It is very simple and quick to do. They put a needle into the swelling, and try and extract what ever will come out. If the syringe fills with pus, it will be pretty obvious. Ditto with serous body fluid. If they try and aspirate and can only get a tiny amount, then it is probably solid (ie a tumour.) They can put the aspirate on a slide and look at it under the microscope. This is a very quick, non-invasive way to get a good idea of what's going on.
Good luck!!! I hope it's just an abscess from the sutures!!!!

 

[Slapdash]

I agree that one of the first things that should be done is a FNA (Fine Needle Aspiration). It is very simple and quick to do. They put a needle into the swelling, and try and extract what ever will come out. If the syringe fills with pus, it will be pretty obvious. Ditto with serous body fluid. If they try and aspirate and can only get a tiny amount, then it is probably solid (ie a tumour.) They can put the aspirate on a slide and look at it under the microscope. This is a very quick, non-invasive way to get a good idea of what's going on.
Good luck!!! I hope it's just an abscess from the sutures!!!!

Thanks for the explanation, now at least I now what to expect. It's so very hard, I don't see how any liquid will be coming out of it, but who knows. The other vet basically sounded like he was saying he thinks it's a tumor. If it is what does that mean for her at her age? And what sort of tumor would it be, because it's definitely not mammary and it's very deep rooted. I've been making sure to baby her extra today since I have it off and she seems to appreciate it :heart: She loves to normally hammock hop throughout the day visiting all her buddies but the past three days shes been sticing to the lower half of the cage in the lowest hanging hammock because it's easier for her to get into :cry: So I went out and got them a new fuzzy sleeping cube that can hang floor level and she's very thankful, I'll post a picture soon

Thanks again!

 

[jorats]

It could very well be an abscess. Regardless if the vet can aspirate anything, I would definitely ask to have some antibiotics.
Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

[mamarat]

Fingers crossed for your sweetie.

 

[Slapdash]

She seems a bit uncomfortable tonight, I have children's motrin but would it be safe to give her some for her discomfort or could that have a bad reaction on the mass if it is an abcess?

 

[victoria]

I don't think it would be a bad thing to make her more comfortable, as long as you're going to take her to the vet. Looking at the pics again, it reminds me of Sophie's tumour before it burst.

In a strange way, the tumour bursting probably gave her a few more months but it was also necrotic so she needed antibiotics and pain medication her last weeks/months.

 

[ChrisK]

How did it go at the vet's today?

 

[Slapdash]

Hi everyone,

Well it wasn't good news, it's a tumor unrelated to the spay. She did the FNA and nothing at all came out. So now we're left with a choice she gave us metacam for the weekend so we can think it over but she basically said surgery is an option but with the location of the tumor there's most likely no way to get the whole thing out and there's a good chance it will leave her incontinent and also with her being 2 1/2 it is going to be more difficult on her body. Despite that she thinks it's worth considering because the dark spots are apparently from her chewing at it, one in particular is more scabby today and she can no longer use that leg anymore. So the only other option is to keep her on meds and possibly abs if it burts and then have her pts in a couple of weeks, if that at the rate it's started growing. :cry: I keep going back and forth but the vet said she seems otherwise very healthy and active for her age. So my husband and I are both leaning towards the operation so it can at least giver her se of that leg again and hopefully a few more months of peace. But. I also would like you're brutally honest opinions, how old is too old to put a rat through surgery? I know it's not as invasive because it's only under the sin but she'll still have a big recovery ahead of her. Thankfully my job is good with letting me get the time off when I need it for pet emergencies so I can be by her side for at least the first 4-5 days. Either way for tonight I am so relieved to see her so comfortable since the metacam has kicked in she's been sleeping so comfortably in her favorite hammock since we got back and is back to her usual bright eyed greeting/kisses whenever I come over to check on her.

 

[Slapdash]

Victoria it does look a lot like Sophie's tumor, I'm sorry about everything she went through. Unfortunately, think we're headed down that same path The vet agreed with me that Rosie's looks like it could burst any day especially since she's started picking at it.

 

[victoria]

It's a very personal choice and there isn't one right answer. If it were my rat and it was only a matter of weeks, I think I would attempt the surgery only because at least there is hope with that choice. It's entirely possible she will pass on the table though, so that's something you have to be prepared for. If you go the surgery route I would ask to start antibiotics pre-op and continue afterward to prevent infection, she will need all the help she can get.

With Sophie, she had too many tumours to remove in a surgery and it would have been her third time around. She had a total of seven tumours when she passed (some we didn't know about) and they were all the same type of malignant mammary tumour. The inguinal one that burst would have necrotic blood pool around it and abscessed, the infection ate away at the leg muscle as it spread. As awful as that sounds, Sophie was happy and comfortable (with the help of antibiotics and a high dose of Metacam - Ibuprofen later on because she hated Metacam and I didn't want to fight with her) until the end. No one, including us, thought she would last as long as she did, so even if you don't go the surgery route, there is hope.

 

[Dazzle87]

I agree with Victoria, either choice is acceptable. I'm very sorry to hear it is a tumor.