Rattie girl with serious gasping attacks

[pets2soul]

Hi,

My heart breaks over the gasping attacks that my 1 yr and 5 months old rattie girl Sesame is having. And I need your advice. We've already gone to the vet a few times. She has pneumonia, and is currently put on Zithromax and albuterol (syrup). On her good days, she may only get a couple gasping attacks a day. But on her bad days, she gets one gasping attack after another. It's frustrating that Theophylline seemed to make it worse for her, and Albuterol syrup isn't helping much, if at all (she takes it twice a day as directly by the doctor). I'm so confused as to what is going on with her air way, why aren't the bronchodilators helpful? I also tried nebulizing her with saline. It seems to help a little. Just wondering if I should keep nebulizing with normal saline, or should I try hypertonic saline? (I went to 2 vets, one tells me to use hypertonic saline, the other was like, "why would you use hypertonic saline? Just use regular saline." I'm very confused.) Thanks!

 

[Kye]

Can you please post a video (upload to YouTube and link it here) it could help out with finding the problem... If you listen to her chest when she's not in a fit what does it sound like.?

 

[pets2soul]

Hi Kye, here is the video of her having the gasping attack. If you could turn the volume up, you may be able to hear something. So basically, usually when the gasping attack just begins, it sounds like she couldn't get any air in and out of her air way, but you know she's finally getting air when you hear the sound like air being pushed through a narrow path. I hope this video helps clarifies her condition.

 

[Dena]

She definitely looks to be in respiratory distress! If the Zithromax isn't working on its own, ask the vet to ADD baytril! How long has she been doing that? Her body will eventually give up, and it's a terrible thing to watch your rattie gasp and die. When she's doing that, do you try to nebulize her with albuterol as well? Sadly, the syrup may not work. It's metabolized different when it's taken by mouth, as apposed to inhalation. If you already have the nebulizer, the albuterol for inhalation is very cheap. $10-15 for about 30 tubes, which you will only use about 3 drops at a time, added to about 2-3cc of saline. Or, if you have it, in a pinch, you can use an albuterol inhaler, and make a chamber out of a Dixie cup (cut a hole in bottom to fit the inhaler in) and use that.

 

[pets2soul]

Thanks, Dena! These information are very helpful! I will call my vet first thing tomorrow.

 

[Dena]

Also take a look at www.ratguide.com for health care info!

 

[pets2soul]

Hello Dena, I have a couple follow up questions. 1. With albuterol nebulizing solution or inhaler, when do I use it? Do I use it only when Sesame is getting the gasping attack, or at a set time everyday (eg. Twice daily)? 2. Would one pinch of the canine or cat albuterol inhaler be too strong for rats? (I’m asking because albuterol is a prescription medicine, I know that my vet has albuterol inhaler for dogs and cats, and it might be the easier way for my to get it.)

 

[Dena]

I'm sure the one for cats and dogs is the same as the human ones. Most meds prescribed for pets are human meds, and also a few specific animal meds.

That being said, you should be ok giving your rat an inhaler for human or dog. The nebulizer one is better though. And you'd give it when she's gasping. But not too often. If you gave it now, and they gasp in a couple hours, I would probably just use saline, or talk to the vet about how often. But it would be the same concept as a human with pneumonia. Just on a smaller scale. I don't see it being beneficial on a set schedule, especially if it's not warranted. Look up albuterol on www.ratguide.com and see what it specifically says. Or Lilspaz can give her opinion. She's extremely knowledgeable on rat meds. She may even have different suggestions for you. Message her.

 

[PiddlePod]

I'm sorry that your girl is going through this. It's heartbreaking to see your furbaby in respiratory distress but it sounds like you are on top of trying to find the right treatment for her.

Have you tried adding baytril oral (or doxycycline) with the zithro? I would suggest speaking to your vet and asking if they would be willing to try adding a second oral antibiotic with the zithro.

If hypertonic saline is nebulized, it should be nebulized along with Albuterol sulfate for inhalation (liquid) to prevent bronchospasm. Hypertonic saline is great at assisting with breaking down plural secretions and aiding in expelling them from the lungs but in some cases it can exasperate lung inflammation. If your girl is wheezing and open mouth gasping still, I would stick with .9% saline for inhalation for now until she is stable.

Nebulizing protocols follow a twice daily regimen of once in the morning and once in the evening (sometimes 3 times a day) until you are able to wean down to once a day for life or as needed. If you want to go with an aggressive treatment I would highly recommend trying a combination of Albuterol sulfate, .9% saline and injectable baytril nebulized twice daily for 15 minutes for 4 weeks along with the zithro and an oral doxycycline and reevaluate from there. If this were my rat, I would treat with nebulizing w/ Albuterol sulfate, .9% sterile saline and injectable baytril in addition to an oral doxy/zithro combo twice daily. possibly adding lasix once or twice a day to assist with resolving any pulmonary edema may be helpful as well.

Easiest set up for nebulizing is getting yourself a clear storage container (18-20 qt) with a lid. Cut a hole into one of the ends of the container to fit the nose of a nebulizer cup (I recommend the PARI Sprint nebulizer cup) with a compressor like the PARI Vios Green or even better the PARI vios PRO. I can send you a link to the store I use to procure my nebulizing equipment, just let me know. The solution I use is 4ml of Albuterol sulfate, 4 ml sterile saline and 0.5ml of injectable Baytril twice daily.

I hope this helps and I really hope that your little Sesame feels better soon!

 

[PiddlePod]

Oh!! I'd also recommend trying broccoli extract (sulphflorane) in addition to which ever protocol you end up going with. This extract will assist with bacterial clearance from the lungs when combined with antibiotics. I use this brand and give two squirts twice daily for 4 weeks, then once a day for life mixed in baby food:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07T4H851K?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[SQ]

Azithromycin (10mg/Ib, orally twice a day) needs to be given with baytril or it is not very effective.
I will ask Lilspaz68 to respond.
Also please post on the facebook group Real Rat Lovers Want To Know, asap

 

[lilspaz68]

Has your girl lost weight? Does her chest seem harder or with less give than a normal rat? Is she getting a nipped in waist? These are all symptoms of pulmonary abscesses. This is progressive and very difficult to treat. If she's gasping and her lungs are constricted and she's having trouble moving air this is when I add steroids. Azithromycin and enrofloxacin/baytril are the only combo I've used that could slow down the progression. The rat will have to stay on antibiotics for the rest of her life as well.

 

[Dena]

I just lost a rat to pulmonary abscess Sunday. It's extremely heartbreaking to watch go downhill. Especially when nothing you are doing is working.

 

[PiddlePod]

How is she doing? Were you able to find a good med combo that is helping?

 

[PiddlePod]

I just lost a rat to pulmonary abscess Sunday. It's extremely heartbreaking to watch go downhill. Especially when nothing you are doing is working.

I'm so sorry for your loss... I can empathize. We are dealing with multiple PAs as well.