Rats and euthanasia

[SQ]

The vet here in Halifax places a mask over my rat's mouth and nose, while I hold my rat and comfort my rattie ...
Another vet allows me to hold the isofluorane gas next to their face ... with all the windows open.

I am very happy to sign legal a consent form in order to do this.

It is important to me to be present when my pet is being pts ...
And if I have questions or don't like what is happening, I speak up ... which isn't easy to do ...

 

[ryelle]

Ryelle, what was wrong with Harvey? You said he had a spinal injury can you explain?

One day he was fine, and i started putting ramps into his cage because he was getting older and i didnt think him jumping and climbing to his ledges was doing him any good. The next day his back end seemed "loose". like his legs were sliding out from under him a bit. I took him to the vets and they said he had a spinal injury (they ran their fingers dwn his spine and he didnt respond like he was in pain or anything) and thats all they treated him for. they didnt see if anything else could be wrong with him.

personally, i thought hed had a stroke or something. I dont know though. I dont know alot about things like this

 

[lilratsy43]

That actually sounds like normal hind leg degeneration. One day they seem fine and then before you know it they are unable to really move there back legs well, that what happened to my Brain as well. Look it up, see if that could be what he had.

 

[theratlady]

and they do not need to be put down for that until it gets really bad. your vet failed you again.

 

[ryelle]

I've read up a bit about it. But i dont know. Harvey was at the extent where he couldnt move his legs. He pulled himself around on the floor by his front legs, while his hind legs just didnt do anything. He had no pushback if u held him up and put your hands under his feet. It literally happened overnight. He used to sit at his door every night and wait for me, and after that night he couldnt even get up to the door, or his food or water. He just slept after then, all day and night. I could put him on the sofa and leave him there for hours and he wouldnt move an inch

 

[theratlady]

yes they can be completely paralyzed on the back end but with help they can live quite comfortably for months. i havent had many hind end rats in the last 5-6yrs maybe due to having more girls then boys. i would put them in a single level cage on soft bedding, flannel is great. blocks or medi-cal treats soaked in water to a mush is a good to feed(or baby cereal/food). sometimes i would hold them so they could eat a treat like a cheerio. i cleaned their ears and used an old toothbrush to groom them and a bath when needed. sometimes they get a penis plug too that needs to be expelled. mostly i didnt mind until they got so bad they didnt want to eat and couldnt move away from where they peed in the cage then i pts. they love to be out on the couch with and snuggle.

 

[ryelle]

I would grab a duvet, put a dvd in the player and would snuggle my little fella on the sofa for hours. It got to the point (about 1 and a half to two months later) where the vets were giving him all these injections that were doing nothing, he was getting dragged down to the surgery sometimes twice a week which stressed him out (he used to pee on the vets :giggle: ), and i honestly believe he was in pain. he was starting to make grunting noises when he tried to clean his sides, and he was hardly ever awake. The vets didnt even give me any meds to take home with me incase he needed it.

My mum is currently texting her co-workers girlfriendy-wife lady. shes a vet nurse in a town close to here, and ive asked if she knows anyone that has experience with rats. going to google, maybe post somewhere, and get the phone book out to make some calls tomorrow. My mum understands that i dont want my two boys going to that place anymore

 

[Moon]

It's time to start calling around like crazy! Don't be afraid to ask for the vet themselves to call you back so you can ask them a few questions over the phone. Asking very specifically how they would put a rat to sleep is a good opener

Most clinics with multiple docs have only one exotics vet, so it's really weird to me that you saw SO many vets.

 

[ryelle]

I just think the surgery is a very poor one. I think they could treat a dog or cat amazingly (its the same place i got my dog treated ><) but i dont think they have any "exotics" specialist. They have an Avian Vet at one of the other clinics from the same chain of surgerys and he trimmed our parakeets wings wrong and he almost killed himself flying in to the T.V and he couldnt land properly. My boyfriend ended up wrapping the bird in a towel while i tried to fix his wings with a second trim (super stressed out birdy).

One of the vets that was treating Harvey said "make an appointment to see me on Thursday". i made the apointment, and he didnt even work at that surgery on the Thursday!!! so i got shoved in to see a completly different vet who had no idea about Harvey

 

[Zooy]

I went through this last week.
The put a mask over the rats head... and turn on the gas. Now my vet stuffed tissues into the opening in the mask so that we couldn't breathe it in. Once she was out cold, we tested all her limbs and relexes, she then inserts a needle into the heart and injects (I can't remember what its called). It can be inserted into the abdomen but the heart is quicker as Jorats said.
I've had 4 rats PTS and this was the first time I watched.

 

[twitch]

when looking for your new vet make sure you can see THAT vet, not the clinic. it makes absolutely no sense for 4 different doctors to be treating an animal at different times. if they were all there at the time and consulted each other, that's one thing, but to say that "he's improved" when it wasn't that doctor that saw the animal in the first place is stupid. he has no basis because he wasn't there to see how the animal was before. that is not just bad vets, that is a BAD PRACTICE. i wouldn't take my cats there even. not if i'm going to be bounced around between the vets there. those vets failed you in so many ways. sadly i don't think they are there for the animals but there for the money with a practice like that. that is just... ugh... i'm so sorry you and your boy had to suffer through that.

 

[Debbie]

Our vet follows almost the same procedure as Jo's. I for one, would not have it done ANY other way. We had to take one of our girls to an emergency vet to be PTS once, and thankfully our exotic vet called ahead and tried to give them some instruction. Hanna did get the gas before, but they did the injection to her abdomen. It takes them much longer to pass that way. And I was just horrified to read of poor Harvey. No vet should EVER do the injection to the heart while they are awake. ryelle I'm so so so sorry that you and Harvey had to go through that! :sad3:

Our vet always puts our rattie in a large plastic tub that's set up for administering anesthesia (they use it before surgery too). i.e. it has a nice blankie in there, and holes cut for the tubes and such for the oxygen and anesthesia.

Our vet always starts slow with just oxygen, as the iso alone is horribly stinky and makes them panic. They slowly increase the gas and the rattie starts to drift off. When they are almost asleep, we quickly switch the rattie to a mask. That way, I can pet them while they are going into deep sleep, and they don't feel paniced from the mask. I ALWAYS hold my breath as I smooch them, because the gas smells horrible and will make you woosie. But I just lean down, hold my breath and give them quick little smooches.

When they appear to be deeply sedated, my vet will pinch their toes for a reaction. When they are all the way under, that's when the vet does the injection directly to the heart. I am right there the whole time and can tell you, they feel nothing at all. They are completely asleep.

The reason I would always do a euthanasia this way, is the heart injection is almost instantaneous. I watched and waitied while it took almost 20 minutes for Hanna to stop breathing after that stomach injection. With the heart, they sometimes barely take 2-3 more breaths and are gone. When I'm ready for my dear little friend to leave this world...I do not want to drag it all out.

I believe the iso gas and heart injection to be the most safe and humane way of euthanasia. :sad3:

 

[ryelle]

if they were all there at the time and consulted each other, that's one thing, but to say that "he's improved" when it wasn't that doctor that saw the animal in the first place is stupid. he has no basis because he wasn't there to see how the animal was before.

I agree, i really do. I don't understand how someone can say an animal has improved without even seeing the animal in the first place. All he had was what the vet the day before had written on a computer.

The reason I would always do a euthanasia this way, is the heart injection is almost instantaneous. I watched and waitied while it took almost 20 minutes for Hanna to stop breathing after that stomach injection. With the heart, they sometimes barely take 2-3 more breaths and are gone. When I'm ready for my dear little friend to leave this world...I do not want to drag it all out.

It took 45 minutes, and another injection into the heart before Harveys heart stopped beating. The vet came in 2 times i remember, and it wasnt until the 3rd time (45mins after the 1st injection) that I had to ask the vet to give him some more because his little heart was still beating so strong.


My mums co-workers girlfriend has just called. She's a veterinary nurse at a practise in a town about half an hour from here. They have a smaller practise in my town though. She said they do the euthanasia the same (although they do the injection into the abdoman, not straight in to the heart), but they explain what they are going to do (the guy in the other place never did), and if i have any problems with it they will happily arrange something else, and she said if i ask, they will gas any of my rats to sleep first without any question. They have treated rats on many occasion, and have also performed surgery on them. She says that I can go through every vet in the place if i want until i find one im comfortable with, and then they will keep me with just one vet - not 5 or 6. She also asked where i'd been before and when i told her she just said "....ummm.... thats why....."

So i think i will give my mam the details of the boys to give to her, and she said she will sign me up. She works at the practise every day so i know my boys will be in safe hands. Im really shaken up about all this. I miss my little guy all over again. Im gunna have to go hug Patrick and Sid

 

[ryelle]

oh, and thanks guys, for all your kind words, advice and help. You may have saved my other two boys from going through the same thing (God forbid) if anything ever happened to them

 

[LA]

Aw I'm so sorry for what you have gone through. Thank you for this discussion because I have never had a rat PTS yet. I'm glad to have this info.

 

[Godmother]

Thanks, Debbie, for the reminder about starting them on the oxygen first. My vet does that, too. I realize that, once they are unconscious, an injection to the heart would be OK. It makes more sense to have the final step go quickly, so I may ask for that next time.

 

[SQ]

Yes, the vets start them on oxygen first and then increase the isofluorane gas ...
As previously mentioned, an injection to the heart is considered ok on a rat that is unconscious from gas.
This is mentioned in the Rat Health Care book.
It is also mentioned that the vet may need to try injecting the heart several times before they are sucessful (depends on the vet and their experience) .... personally, I prefer the method I previously mentioned ...

 

[Moon]

I had to go to a vet's office that didn't have an exotic sized mask when I had Emma PTS. She was too bad to let go another day.

The vet was reluctant to use the gas seeing as she was pregnant and didn't have an appropriate sized mask, and was afraid for her own health to inhale too much (which I understood). But we talked about it and she stretched a surgical glove over the mask and tied it, and made a small hole in the glove so Emma's head would fit in snugly.

It worked really well and I was very happy with the arrangement, considering.Emma was very good about me holding her and put her face in the mask very well. Now I don't think I'd ever have a rat PTS without me in the room, it put me much more at ease being there, knowing for sure it was done well.

 

[ryelle]

I went really wierd with Harvey. I think i went temporarily crazy. I wouldn't let anyone touch him after hed had the injection. I got home and I put him in his long nest with lots of straw and bedding ready to be taken to my mums house. I wouldnt let anyone touch him, or look at him though. Maybe its because he looked so vunerable. I dont know. I had to be there though in the vets room, as heartbreaking as it was. I dont think id have been able to have given him over to the vet and taken away - to handle him just disapearing from my life like that

He was the greatest in the world. Patrick reminds me a lot of him - i say he's Harvey reincarnated My mum isnt as big an animal lover as me, but she still cries for Harvey. Might sound pathetic, but we all do, and it was almost 7months ago. Heck! we still mourn the dog and he died 6 years ago! lol!

 

[Debbie]

I'm just so sorry about it taking so long. If it's done appropriately, the heart injection is very full proof and fast. Of course, even experienced vets can have a harder time getting to the heart on the first try.

Graphic comments so please don't read further if you are squeemish:

It took me many euthansias to be able to actually see the heart injection portion. But their hearts are very small, and I watch our vet hold her fingers on their chest to make sure she knows right where it is before injecting them. If they miss....their hearts will continue to beat. But they know they've hit the heart when they pull back on the syringe just a bit, and blood comes back. Our vet does that several times in those few seconds to make sure she's at the heart, and all the fluid goes there.

With the stomach injection, (as with the heart) the mask should be kept on until the ratties' heart stops beating. It just takes longer, because the fluid has to move through their system to get to the heart. When injected directly there, well...of course, that's why it's faster. In either case, as others have mentioned, if the rattie is unconsious, they will feel nothing.