Potential Pregnancy...

[RVT]

To start, I am 100% against breeding. I believe there are too many animals in need of homes now to be adding to the population. I have never wanted to breed.

I have 7 rats:
House one: three un-spayed females (Dottie, Sam and Shannon), one neutered male (Lando) and one spayed female (Perri).
House two: one un-neutered male (Moe) and one neutered male (Marlee).
They live in Ferret Nations covered in hardware cloth (1cmx1cm squares).

The problem:
Dottie (150g un-spayed 6m old female) chewed her way through the hardware cloth covering her house and climbed to house two and chewed her way into it with Moe and Marlee (at this time not neutered). I estimate she was in there for about an hour.

When I found Dottie in with the boys there was no copulatory plug present, but Marlee was closely following her around. I immediately removed her, re-covered the houses and began weighing her everyday.
I am absolutely sick about this, I am losing sleep thinking about difficulty birthing and health problems occurring with Dottie. It is driving me insane with the uncertainty that she is or isn't pregnant.

What I would like to know is what you all think of her weights and what you think her chances are of being pregnant. She would be one week and two days pregnant, to me her belly looks a little bigger, but I could just be paranoid...

Morning Weights:
Oct 29 - 153g
Oct 30 - 154g
Nov 1 - 150g
Nov 2 - 161g
Nov 3 - 178g
Nov 4 - 174g

Evening Weights:
Oct 28 - 159g
Oct 29 - 163g
Oct 31 - 157g
Nov 1 - 166g
Nov 2 - 169g
Nov 3 - 175g

I left my camera at work, so I will get it this weekend and post some pictures.

Thank you for any help!

 

[xxchelle]

Where are you located in Canada? Is there a chance you could get her e-spayed?

If she's pregnant, she'll start gaining 5-10 grams per day during her third week. At this point, she's gained what, 16 grams over a week? That's not THAT much, but she's still early on in her pregnancy if she is pregnant.

 

[victoria]

I agree with Chelle, if you have the means, I would go to the an experienced vet (if one is available to you) ASAP and ask them if it's too late to do a spay. (I have never done an e-spay before, so I do not know the time frame.) You have to go ASAP though, because the longer you leave it, the more complicated/dangerous/undo-able the procedure becomes. If not, I would start supplementing her diet with a little more protein or calcium in case she is pregnant and start keeping an eye out for a maternity appropriate cage, etc.

I am not trying to criticize, but are both cages in the same room? If they are, is it possible to put them in different rooms until this is sorted and all members of one sex are fixed? If they're in the same room, it is likely very stressful for all of them to have to deal with the constant urge to reproduce.

As an aside, I don't think copulation plugs are as common with rats as they are with mice. Female mice may actually lose a litter if exposed to the pheromones of a male other than the father (called the Bruce Effect), likely due to the fact male mice are insanely territorial.

I hope this all works out, good luck.

ETA: How old is Dottie? If she's older than 8 months (or up to a year depending who you ask) and she hasn't had a litter, pregnancy is really dangerous for her and you really need to get her fixed. If you don't have a vet and would like some suggestions, there are a lot of members here from all over Canada that I'm sure would be happy to help.

 

[lizmo1221]

In the original thread, the poster stated that their girl is six months old, and that their two groups live in thier respective half of a FN wrapped in hardware cloth. It may not be possible to separate the two groups.

But I agree, its very dangerous to have unaltered sexes in the same room, especially literally next to each other. I would get them in separate rooms, unlikely to smell each other, ASAP, and get all of one sex altered before they live together again.

 

[victoria]

In the original thread, the poster stated that their girl is six months old, and that their two groups live in thier respective half of a FN wrapped in hardware cloth. It may not be possible to separate the two groups.

But I agree, its very dangerous to have unaltered sexes in the same room, especially literally next to each other. I would get them in separate rooms, unlikely to smell each other, ASAP, and get all of one sex altered before they live together again.

I don't know how I missed it when I went back to look for an age :emb:

 

[jorats]

I would assume that she's pregnant. Keep checking to see if your girl goes into heat, that would be the best way to know if she is or not.
If you can, get her spayed asap. If not... then it's time to prepare for babies. It sucks but it's there... time to do the best you can to find them homes or to prepare a home for them.

 

[RVT]

Thanks everyone! An e-spay is not an option at this point. I am 100% capable of caring for the babies and I have no worries about that part. I have a lot of "rat lover" friends and already have four homes (each is willing to take two) set up if she is pregnant.
She is a very petite girl and I just worry about her.
I do have a maternity cage, nesting boxes and materials and lots of supplementary foods for her.

What do you all think about her weights? As a trend they seem to be getting higher each day, but they differ from morning to evening and there are two or three times where they are lower than before...

 

[lilspaz68]

I have done that where I weighed morning and evening...it got too confusing. Just stick with one time of the day to weigh her. I would say she's definitely pregnant from her weights. A chart of another teeny young girl (Lil was only about 8-9 weeks when she gave birth)

Lilith (last 10 days of her pregnancy) (morning/evening weights if taken, the majoriy were just evening)
Aug 4 - 145 g
Aug 5 - 154 g
Aug 6 - n/a
Aug 7 - n/a
Aug 8 - 172/174 g
Aug 9 - 176/171 g  (a stall and slight drop in weight is actually normal)
Aug 10 - 200/212 g
Aug 12 - 210/217 g
Aug 13 - 221/231 g
Aug 14 - 234/241 g  (birth at 2 am)

 

[RVT]

Thanks lilspaz68, your weight chart really helps How many bubs did your girl have?

Im still holding out hope that she is just going through a growth spurt haha, but I am prepared either way.

 

[lilspaz68]

Thanks lilspaz68, your weight chart really helps How many bubs did your girl have?

Im still holding out hope that she is just going through a growth spurt haha, but I am prepared either way.

Lilith had 8 boys...a few of the forum members now have them :thumbup: I still have Lilith

 

[RVT]

Dottie's belly has started to expand. She is one week and 5 days today. Is it normal for her belly to feel firm? All my other girls have squishy bellies, but do pregnant bellies feel different from normal ones?
She also seems more tired today, she is eating great but just seems like she wants to lay down and rest more than normal. Is this normal for a pregnancy at this stage?

 

[lilspaz68]

Yep pretty normal. And you're sure on the date she was mated?

 

[RVT]

I am 99.9% sure on the date.

 

[lilspaz68]

I am 99.9% sure on the date.

OK then its about now she will start her serious weight gain. You will be sure there's no more room for them in there anymore but she continues to expand. :laugh4:

 

[Joanne]

Good luck with your little girl's pregnancy! Maybe by some miracle... but we're not holding our breath!
Ratties are usually good mamas, and rats are so successful because they are little baby machines! So hopefully she'll be the norm, and just pop out a *SMALL* litter, no problems.

 

[RVT]

Well, Dottie's belly doesn't look as big today and it is not as firm. There still isn't any change with her nipples. She weighs 182g this morning.

I brought her to work and did a radiograph, I did not see any skeletons, but did see two shapes that resemble heads. So, I am still not convinced.

She would be 13 days along today. Does anyone know when a fetus will show a skeleton? or has anyone ever radiographed their pregnant rat before?

 

[Joanne]

I would hesitate to radiograph any pregnant animal unless it was an emergency situation....
I would definitely recommend not taking a second film 'just to know'. Time will tell if she's pregnant, and if you're commited to having the babies if she is preggo, then it doesn't really matter.

 

[lizmo1221]

You can tell a lot more from an ultrasound than a radiograph (and its FAR less dangerous). I wouldn't bother putting her through the stress though. Within the next 3-5 days you will be sure anyway.

 

[RVT]

Well, Dottie is 200g today, she started out at 150g. She would be due tomorrow if she is pregnant. I am still not 100% sure if she is. Her belly seems a bit bigger than it did 3 weeks ago, but I have been feeding her lots of supplementary things.

Have any of you had any pregnant rats that were very good at hiding their pregnancy?

 

[lilspaz68]

My mama's usually gained around 100 grams in the last 10-11 days, so she might be carrying a small litter.