mamarat
Well-Known Member
I've only nebulized healthy rats and I put sunflower seeds on the floor of the tub. The rats love being nebulized. lol
nebulizing sucks!
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Debbie
Well-Known Member
jorats said:
Well, I'm sure the medicinal purpose for the Baytril IS good. Just like when it's administered orally or even injected. But is stings their airways in the same manner as their skin. :sad3:
I talked with our vet today and she said she would look for documented proof, but "vet's just know" is how she put it. She said, at our clinic, they don't give Baytril injections for the same reason, as it burns/stings. That with the fact that the Baytril can still be effective and easily administered orally, there's really no need to put the rats through getting it through the neb.
As for the comment about "extra heat". There's no heat from the nebulizer, it's just forced air through a tube into a little chamber. None of my rats have ever been warm when they come out. Are you thinking more of a humidifier? The only thing we notice is that the rattie might be a little "moist" from the mist of the meds. But even that dries in just a minute after removing them.
Gosh, I feel so bad that others hate using the nebulizer. It's probably our favorite life saver here. And I am a huge paranoid freak about any of my ratties suffering or being uncomfy.
Lise
Well-Known Member
Debbie already knows my opinion, as I have voiced it on another list, but personally I won't nebulize ever again.
It just created panic to the point where my already sick rat couldn't breathe, diarrhea from the fright to the point where it was liquid poo streaming out of her.... it was absolutely horrid.
I also tried putting in a buddy to see if that would help -- it didn't. I tried poking more air holes to see if it wasn't as steamy if it would be better -- didn't help. My poor girl would come out breathing worse than when she went in.
I paid approx. $500 that month with that rat (my beloved deceased Nora) including the nebulizer, all the antibiotics, bronchodilators, etc. and all it did was make her worse everytime I tried.
I think the only way I would ever perhaps try doing it would be to do like someone else said... hold it nearby with the rat just cuddled up in a towel and see if it might help a little bit. But I personally won't do the enclosed container thing again.
It just created panic to the point where my already sick rat couldn't breathe, diarrhea from the fright to the point where it was liquid poo streaming out of her.... it was absolutely horrid.
I also tried putting in a buddy to see if that would help -- it didn't. I tried poking more air holes to see if it wasn't as steamy if it would be better -- didn't help. My poor girl would come out breathing worse than when she went in.
I paid approx. $500 that month with that rat (my beloved deceased Nora) including the nebulizer, all the antibiotics, bronchodilators, etc. and all it did was make her worse everytime I tried.
I think the only way I would ever perhaps try doing it would be to do like someone else said... hold it nearby with the rat just cuddled up in a towel and see if it might help a little bit. But I personally won't do the enclosed container thing again.
Have any of you ever had any experience with a liquid oral bronchodilator called clenbuterol? I have half a container left from another animal and I'm wondering whether it might be helpful to give in very small portions to my friend's very sick rat... It looks like just a really bad respiratory problem.. but her face is quite swollen, which might just be an unrelated abscess. Let me know what you think..
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
claire said:
found this
Veterinary use
Clenbuterol is used worldwide for the treatment of allergic respiratory disease in horses, as it is a bronchodilator. A common trade name is Ventipulmin. It can be used both orally and intravenously. It is also a non-steroidal anabolic and metabolism accelerator, through a mechanism not well understood. Its ability to induce weight loss and a greater proportion of muscle to fat makes its illegal use in livestock popular.
I think with the weight loss factor you would have to be careful with a sick animal. It seems the only vet usage is for horses, not pet rats. You would have no clue what dosage to use for a pet rat either.
I think you had better start with the swollen face since the illness behind it probably started the URI. Can your friend get to the vet?
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
I am not familiar with that med., but often a bronchodilator can help with breathing.
Meds are based on weight so you would need to know the dosage (mg/gram of rat) and the girl's weight.
Edit: sounds like a dangerous drug to use with a sick rat.
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Sounds like she needs to see a vet asap. She may have an abcess, or an infection.
Pictures and more info would help.
Does she have fluid in her lungs? Does she sound conjested when you hold her up to your ear and listen to both sides of her chest?
Is she eating ok?
The baytril + zithro combo often helps respir. problems. If antibiotics don't help, she could be tried on heart meds as heart problems are often the cause of respir problems that do not respond to various combos of antibiotics.
You could try putting a warm, damp cloth against the side of her face several times a day. If she has an abcess, that may help bring it to a head.
But she needs to see a vet asap.
Meds are based on weight so you would need to know the dosage (mg/gram of rat) and the girl's weight.
Edit: sounds like a dangerous drug to use with a sick rat.
...........................................................................................................................
Sounds like she needs to see a vet asap. She may have an abcess, or an infection.
Pictures and more info would help.
Does she have fluid in her lungs? Does she sound conjested when you hold her up to your ear and listen to both sides of her chest?
Is she eating ok?
The baytril + zithro combo often helps respir. problems. If antibiotics don't help, she could be tried on heart meds as heart problems are often the cause of respir problems that do not respond to various combos of antibiotics.
You could try putting a warm, damp cloth against the side of her face several times a day. If she has an abcess, that may help bring it to a head.
But she needs to see a vet asap.
Debbie
Well-Known Member
I'm with the others, sounds like this little one needs to see the vet asap. A swollen face could be a number of things from a tooth abscess to tumor of the zymbals gland. :sad3:
Hey! Thanks for your help. You're right.. it does sound kind of risky to try on a rat.. especially since I don't know how to dose for them. The clenbuterol was for my horse, who suffers from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.
Molly has had head tilt for a long time.. so the swollen face might have something to do with that. Her face is noticeably larger on one side. She is having a lot of trouble breathing.. sometimes she rattles and bobs her head and she has porphyrin staining around her eyes and a lot around her nose. She has also lost quite a lot of weight since it got to this stage (within the last 2 weeks). She is currently on Baytril, which might be causing her weight loss. She's been on the Baytril for about 15 days and things have not improved. About a month before we started on the Baytril, she was on a doxy/baytril combination... but her respiratory problems quickly returned. For your info, she is living on yesterday's news and we're trying our best to fatten her up.
I have pursuaded my friend to take his rat to the vet (we have our rats in a shared cage) and hopefully the vet will have an idea of what's going on. Erik (my friend) is quickly giving up on her and might just have her put down if the problem is not easily solved. He's not all that willing to put much money into her. I'm going to try to come with him and see if I can get the vet to give us some other kind of bronchodilator and/or Zithromax or a stronger dose of Baytril (my vet told me before that Zithromax wasn't going to help). I wonder if any of you have used steroids on rats to help them with respiratory problems. Most of my knowledge about respiratory problems comes from treating my horse.. and a steroid like prednisone might help. I will try applying a warm cloth to her face to see if it might help.
Thanks again for your help!
Molly has had head tilt for a long time.. so the swollen face might have something to do with that. Her face is noticeably larger on one side. She is having a lot of trouble breathing.. sometimes she rattles and bobs her head and she has porphyrin staining around her eyes and a lot around her nose. She has also lost quite a lot of weight since it got to this stage (within the last 2 weeks). She is currently on Baytril, which might be causing her weight loss. She's been on the Baytril for about 15 days and things have not improved. About a month before we started on the Baytril, she was on a doxy/baytril combination... but her respiratory problems quickly returned. For your info, she is living on yesterday's news and we're trying our best to fatten her up.
I have pursuaded my friend to take his rat to the vet (we have our rats in a shared cage) and hopefully the vet will have an idea of what's going on. Erik (my friend) is quickly giving up on her and might just have her put down if the problem is not easily solved. He's not all that willing to put much money into her. I'm going to try to come with him and see if I can get the vet to give us some other kind of bronchodilator and/or Zithromax or a stronger dose of Baytril (my vet told me before that Zithromax wasn't going to help). I wonder if any of you have used steroids on rats to help them with respiratory problems. Most of my knowledge about respiratory problems comes from treating my horse.. and a steroid like prednisone might help. I will try applying a warm cloth to her face to see if it might help.
Thanks again for your help!
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
If she has head tilt, she may have an inner ear infection. How long has she had it? How bad is it? Was it sucessfully treated?
If she has untreated head tilt, she needs immediate aggressive treatment with antibiotics (perhaps baytril + clavamox) and a steriod ... such as an injection of dexamethasone daily for one to three days, followed by predisone twice a day from the next day on.
Head tilt can also be a sign of neurological problems or brain tumor. Treatment is the same. Prognosis, however, is very different.
Head tilt, swollen face, and respir. problems does not sound good. She needs to see a vet that knows rats asap.
If she has untreated head tilt, she needs immediate aggressive treatment with antibiotics (perhaps baytril + clavamox) and a steriod ... such as an injection of dexamethasone daily for one to three days, followed by predisone twice a day from the next day on.
Head tilt can also be a sign of neurological problems or brain tumor. Treatment is the same. Prognosis, however, is very different.
Head tilt, swollen face, and respir. problems does not sound good. She needs to see a vet that knows rats asap.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
How old is Molly? Was this all just recent? (last month or so?).
Steroids can really help with respiratory issues, it reduces the inflammation in their lungs allowing them to breathe better.
Baytril and zithromax work very very well together.
Do you have any idea of the concentration of the baytril and/or doxy? Approx how much Molly weighs and what dose was suggested by the vet? Its possible she was underdosed. How long was she on the doxy/baytril as well?
its likely the illness that is making her lose weight, baytril really won't do that on its own. She just sounds sick
Steroids can really help with respiratory issues, it reduces the inflammation in their lungs allowing them to breathe better.
Baytril and zithromax work very very well together.
Do you have any idea of the concentration of the baytril and/or doxy? Approx how much Molly weighs and what dose was suggested by the vet? Its possible she was underdosed. How long was she on the doxy/baytril as well?
its likely the illness that is making her lose weight, baytril really won't do that on its own. She just sounds sick
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
One other thing, are her feet, ears, tail cool/cold and possibly bluish? Does she hang her head to breathe? Does she have massive weight loss and is breathing through her abdomen?
Thanks for your quick responses. I am on the phone with Erik as I am housesitting for my mom. Here is a picture of her:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3643/366 ... 6a.jpg?v=0
She was squirming a lot and you can't really see the porphyrin around her nose very well.. but it's pretty bad. She's not having any problems eating or anything, by the way.
No her feet, tail, etc. are not blue. She is using more of her abdomen to breathe however... that only means she's having difficulty getting air out.
She was 'treated' for her head tilt when she was younger, 6 months? She got the doxy/baytril combo then too. No injection. I'm starting to think that my old vet was not treating them for a long enough time. Her head tilt treatment was for 10 days and the following doxy/baytril treatment 2 months ago was 10 days as well... we actually treated them until the doxy ran out and then stopped. So it was longer than 10 days, but I'm not sure exactly how much longer.
I switched vets and now Molly and my rat Maya are on Baytril for 20 days. Molly is getting 0.08ml of a 37.5 mg/ml Baytril. I don't have her weight. Maya is getting 0.1ml from the same bottle of Baytril and weighs 360 grams. You can do the math!! Erik says its approximately 288 grams. Molly is 2 years old now.
Yes, the swollen face and the massive quantity of porphyrin are relatively recent (within the last 2 weeks).. her breathing issues are older but have never been anywhere this severe.
The lump on her face is quite hard. She has a small lump on her belly that is soft and moveable and feels quite different. My first vet suggested having the belly lump removed but it has shrunk since seeing her 2 months ago and doesn't bother her at all. I'm wondering if the lump on her face is cancer.. It feels a lot harder than the mammary tumor that I just had removed from Maya.
I'm going to call the vet tomorrow for Erik and see if they can fit her in sometime during the week..
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3643/366 ... 6a.jpg?v=0
She was squirming a lot and you can't really see the porphyrin around her nose very well.. but it's pretty bad. She's not having any problems eating or anything, by the way.
No her feet, tail, etc. are not blue. She is using more of her abdomen to breathe however... that only means she's having difficulty getting air out.
She was 'treated' for her head tilt when she was younger, 6 months? She got the doxy/baytril combo then too. No injection. I'm starting to think that my old vet was not treating them for a long enough time. Her head tilt treatment was for 10 days and the following doxy/baytril treatment 2 months ago was 10 days as well... we actually treated them until the doxy ran out and then stopped. So it was longer than 10 days, but I'm not sure exactly how much longer.
I switched vets and now Molly and my rat Maya are on Baytril for 20 days. Molly is getting 0.08ml of a 37.5 mg/ml Baytril. I don't have her weight. Maya is getting 0.1ml from the same bottle of Baytril and weighs 360 grams. You can do the math!! Erik says its approximately 288 grams. Molly is 2 years old now.
Yes, the swollen face and the massive quantity of porphyrin are relatively recent (within the last 2 weeks).. her breathing issues are older but have never been anywhere this severe.
The lump on her face is quite hard. She has a small lump on her belly that is soft and moveable and feels quite different. My first vet suggested having the belly lump removed but it has shrunk since seeing her 2 months ago and doesn't bother her at all. I'm wondering if the lump on her face is cancer.. It feels a lot harder than the mammary tumor that I just had removed from Maya.
I'm going to call the vet tomorrow for Erik and see if they can fit her in sometime during the week..
