Myco & Mites - Update Pg 4 - Back from the vet

Hi,

I have two questions, first one being:

My manrat Toby is still being treated for a respiratory infection. 65 days ago we brought him to the vet with sneezes, porph discharge from nose and slightly bad breathing. He was put on Baytril once a day for 2 weeks, that did nothing, never got worse or got better (usually baytril is used twice a day, but his symptoms were not overally bad). We brought him back and he was then put on Baytril once a day + doxy twice a day for 30 days. After the 30 days he seemed to be better, one day with no medicen and we started seeing porph around the eyes and nose & sneezes, but his breathing was fine. So back to the vet we went again & so Dr. D decided to put him do long term with the baytril once a day + Doxy twice a day combo ..after just one day his sneezes stopped & breathing was still fine. Now 20 days later still on the baytril + doxy combo ..all we have is the random sneeze and porph in the morining. I am taking him back to the vet Tuesday for a check up, I am unsure what to do, wheather to leave him on the meds or take him off? what's your personal experience? & if he stays on the meds how long can he take meds for? he will be a year May 17, & I really don't want to loose him :sad3:
Also he has still got all his energy & desire for food (no problem there, & there never was)
Also my vet is still learning, he is the best exotic vet in town and care very much about rat's, but not many people have rat's here that go to the vet. He is always opened to suggestions.
I recently learned that Baytril should be given twice a day ..and only once a day longterm, do you think I should suggest giving baytril twice daily along with the doxy? since this has not been tried yet?

It's nice to put a face to a name, so here's Toby (it has been posted other place too, but names get confusing so ..) (this is him about a week ago)

Second question,

I keep my rat's nails trimed very well, every 2 - 3 weeks I will trim them, but I find the sides of their chins/face and under their chins are always scratched up ..because thats where they normal scratch (clean). Is there anything I can do to help this? two of my rat's never need nail trimming and thier faces are fine, it's only the others that need thier nails trimmed that have the scratches. Also there is no large amount of scratching.
Mites maybe???? :emb: :emb: :emb: :emb: :emb:

Thanks for you time, & sorry for being so long.

 

Oh & I should add, Toby's sickness came about 2 days after me & the bf coming home from the Dominican. I think it was brought on my stress of us being gone and someone else looking after him. He stressed easily.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

I don't think upping the baytril to twice a day will do anything now. Either it's like my Joey (the never ending URI no matter what meds he was given) or you might possibly be dealing with antibiotic resistence because the baytril dose wasn't strong enough in the first place. You might need stronger meds? (not sure about this so I will let someone else weigh in).

As for the scratching, I have never trimmed my rats nails and they have never scratched themselves in normal day to day cleaning. Have you tried treating for mites just to rule it out?

 

I don't think upping the baytril to twice a day will do anything now. Either it's like my Joey (the never ending URI no matter what meds he was given) or you might possibly be dealing with antibiotic resistence because the baytril dose wasn't strong enough in the first place. You might need stronger meds? (not sure about this so I will let someone else weigh in).

As for the scratching, I have never trimmed my rats nails and they have never scratched themselves in normal day to day cleaning. Have you tried treating for mites just to rule it out?

If there were mites, why would only some have the scratches? Also what is the exact signs of mites? I have dealt with lice before, but not mites.

How long was Joey on meds for?

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Some rats are more suseptible to the mites than others. Scratches on the chin, back etc. can be signs but personally if my boys have unexplained scratches then they get treated with revo.

Joey was on meds for the last eight months of his life. The never ending URI finally got to the point were meds did nothing for it so I made the decision to have him pts.

 

I feel really stupid now if it is mites, they could have had them for months now I hope that don't hurt their health

:emb:

Sorry about Joey :heart:

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Mites can lower the rat's immune system but no need to beat yourself up the important thing is to get them treated to make sure its the cause of the scratching. I wonder if Toby's persistent URI might be related to him having mites? (just speculating)

 

Mites can lower the rat's immune system but no need to beat yourself up the important thing is to get them treated to make sure its the cause of the scratching. I wonder if Toby's persistent URI might be related to him having mites? (just speculating)

It's a good possiblity.
I will call the vet Monday, and get some revo.

 

After I trat them with Revo on Tuesday, I should wash everything down? and freeze any wood for 3 days? and I always freeze the bedding so thats good to go. Food is also always frozen. How long will it take to get rid of them?

I still can't belive how stupid I am, not to realize that they are mites, and my vet is still learning too so he will benifit from this too, as he has seen the scratches and wonderd what they were ..and was always half off about them.

 

I also read that too much protien can cause scabs under the chin, not sure if this is true. But I feed Martins (20% protien) and extrusion (16% protien) mixed together + fresh veggies everyday.
I think I am going to take the Martins away alltogether and just leave them with extrusion.
But I am still treating for mites. I just wanted to hear opinions on this protien and scabs under the chin.

 

[jorats]

When you see tiny scabs on your rats, it's always due to the nails... But if your rats is scratching so much to be leaving pin pricks and scabs, then they have bugs. Those with shorter nails can still have bugs, they just aren't leaving scabs on themselves because they keep their nails trimmed.
Mites could also be the cause of myco and other illness. Rats can become listless and susceptible to all kinds of other symptoms due to mites.
Get them on Revo asap. And go nuts on your cleaning.

 

[Rachael]

I don't think I'd still have him on the medicine. If you keep him on the antibiotics too long it will get a point it just stops working for him becasue they have been used so much. I would take him off and see how he goes. With some of my boys that had constant breathing problems (I think worse than your boy though?) they would have 14 days on medicine, 14 days off medicine, and just do that... it worked. And sometimes when we took them off medicine, they actually got better.... but they had very damaged lungs. Is his breathing noisy or laboured/fast at all? If it got bad again you might want to consider a steroid injection for any inflammatory in the lungs.... that might work and actually shift the infection.

Also I wouldn't worry *too* much about the mites. Rats constantly have mites living on them but they become obvious when stressed/sick. So if Toby has had mites/lice you may have accidently passed them on to the others (they can take a ride on your clothes haha).

I just clean the cage no different to usual and do the ivermectin to the back of their neck once a week for 3 weeks - 4 weeks. Take out any hammocks or fleece that they could live on.

 

[MomRat]

We had dog mites that came in on two new ratties that never ever showed signs of infestation. Ever. A month or two after they came into our home, we lost one of our original pair of boys to PT, and his brother's immune system weakened while he was grieving - boom - he was scabby. Also correction to previous post - Revolution(selemectin) is applied to the back of the neck once(a month), or a second dose may be given in two weeks for a bad infestation. Once is usually enough. Ivermectin is given orally once a week for three weeks, or can be an injectable given at the office by your vet. I don't think there is topical Ivermectin. Just remember, Lice you can see, Mites are microscopic, but scabs under the chin are a dead giveaway - I have a rat who chews his nails to razor sharpness, if he slips off my arm they draw blood, and he grooms and scratches all over his face without ever breaking the skin. They really have to be trying to get rid of the itch to start getting those scabs.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

We had dog mites that came in on two new ratties that never ever showed signs of infestation.

Fun fact...mites are actually species specific meaning your ratties can't pass mites to your dog or vice versa :thumbup:

 

I am unable to get revo until either Monday or Tuesday, so right now I am in the process of freezeing everything until they are treated. All wood products I know, how about cardboard?

 

oh and food and bedding of course

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

It doesn't *really* matter...I say that because mites can't live off host. Once your rats are treated they are protected for a month so the mites will be long gone by then. Cleaning/freezing never hurts but I personally have never done it.

 

[MomRat]

We had dog mites that came in on two new ratties that never ever showed signs of infestation.

Fun fact...mites are actually species specific meaning your ratties can't pass mites to your dog or vice versa :thumbup:

Fun fact...there are mites that will travel from specie to specie, cheyletiella mange is one of them, skin scrape came back positive and we SAW the bugs in the microscope(because our vet is awesome like that) It is becoming my calling on these boards and goosemoose to try to tell everyone that even though mites are USUALLY species specific, that they almost always BREED species specific, they can travel and cause nasty infestations. It has gotten to where most owners don't even do scrapes because they come back negative so often, and the ones that ARE done do come back neg a lot, that no one catches it when this happens. But it happened to us. It is possible and there fore should be guarded against, instead of just being tossed aside with a catch all "it can't happen." We took in two rats with NO symptoms from a previous owner who was a dog groomer, there was no other source for mites brought into our home, and a few months later when one of our first boys immune system was lowered due to grieving for his brother, bam, nasty infestation of Cheyletiella Mange, which is normally either a Dog, Cat, or Rabbit specific mite, but can travel to rats, other rodents, and even travel on people(it could infest us, but we tend to bathe and that takes care of it). It can live up to two weeks off host, under controlled lab conditions I believe, but can live 48 with no host at all in the wild.

Sorry if I come on strong, but I feel like no matter how many times I post this, no one listens... :wallbang:

 

[jorats]

MomRat we hear you! We just seem to forget. It's been so ingrained in us that mites are species specific and we never really see a case like yours. But keep on reminding us. We'll get it sooner or later.

 

[Rachael]

I don't freeze food or bedding either.