Mammary tumor - spay, or use Suprelorin-implant?

[Tonje!]

My 14 months old female rat has got a mammary tumor, I discovered it yesterday.

I went to the vet today, and she gave my four options:

• 1. Do nothing
  2. Surgically remove the tumor
  3. Surgically remove the tumor and spay her (if that is the correct term for removing the uterine and tubals)
  4. Surgically remove the tumor and put a Suprelorin implant in her

Option 1 is clearly out of the question, Hanne did also not recommended this.
Option 2 is the easiest way out, but according to Hanna, it is likely that Frida will get more mammary tumors later on.

Therefore, she first recommended option 3 (surgically remove the tumor and spay her). This would either eliminate the possibility of more mammary tumors, or reduce the risk considerably, I don't remember exactly what she said. But maybe someone in here knows how that works? The problem with this option is that spaying, according to Hannah, is a risky operation, way more risky than simply removing the mammary tumor.

But then she mentioned option 4 (roving the mammary tumor and inserting a Suprelorin implant instead of spaying). The implant acts as a chemical spaying, and has successfully been used on dogs, birds and small animals. According to Hanne, it has become quite common to use these on ferrets instead of normal castration.

The problem is that the Suprelorin implants are not that well tested yet, so there are no guarantees that it will work when it comes to mammary tumors in the same way as spaying. The good thiung is that this implant is not dangerous for the rat, so the chances that she will survive surgery is much greater.

So then I wonder:
* Have any of you got any experience or knowledge about these implants? Both in general and when it comes to mammary tumors.
* Is it normal to spay rats with mammary tumors instead and just removing the tumor(s)?
* How big of a risk is there when spaying a 14 month old rat which is otherwise healthy and fit?

And perhaps a difficult question, but:
* What would you have done?

I have no idea what to do, this is such a dilemma. The operation is on Monday and I dont have to decide until then.

PLEASE HELP ME! : (

 

[jorats]

You've come to the right place, we have experience with all those options.
For me, it would be option 3 all the way. But I have a very good vet and she's quite experienced with spays.
We have I believe two members here who have experience with the implants. Hopefully Victoria will see this and give us her opinion.

 

[victoria]

The Suprelorin implants are the same as the Deslorelin implants used in North America. I started a thread about them (viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19025) when i first got one of my girls done. According to my vet, they are equivalent to a spay. If it were me, and I were removing the tumour surgically already, I would get the spay done. If you were going to hold off on surgery, were worried about her health, or the vet was concerned because the tumour removal took too long, I would get the implant. I've done it both ways and neither is guaranteed to prevent mammary tumours from reoccurring but it certainly gives you the best chance. Usually it comes down to a question of health (is the rat healthy enough for surgery?) and economics (one implant that lasts for a year is cheaper than a spay but two are more expensive) when I choose between the two.

 

[ChrisK]

My 14 months old female rat has got a mammary tumor, I discovered it yesterday.

I went to the vet today, and she gave my four options:

• 1. Do nothing
  2. Surgically remove the tumor
  3. Surgically remove the tumor and spay her (if that is the correct term for removing the uterine and tubals)
  4. Surgically remove the tumor and put a Suprelorin implant in her

(

First of all Bravo to you for catching this so quickly and getting your rattie in so fast! You will probably want to check in with Victoria, as she's got lots of experience with the implants.

I got the implants for both my girl ratties. The first time, I did it because my girl was a bit older and was still recovering from a surgery when I discovered another lump. I didn't want to put her thru surgery again so quickly. Unfortunately, she'd had the new tumor for 3 weeks before getting the implant, and the implant did not prevent the growth of that tumor nor did it prevent new ones from popping up.

My second girl rattie also had more tumors after her first tumor removal surgery, so I got the implant for her, and it did not work for her either.

As in your case, I think if my rat was only 14 months old and had mammary tumors, I would definitely go for the spay and tumor removal, if the vet has a good track record with these procedures, and your girl is otherwise in good health.

From what I've read about the implants, my experience is NOT the norm, they tend to work in most cases. I'm figuring if your rattie needs tumor removal surgery anyway, may as well add the spay at the same time, if possible.

Lots of other folks on the forum have experience with this... I'm sure you'll get lots more good feedback/ideas.

good luck to you and your rattie...

 

[MissGuardian]

I guess I´ve already told you what I think, and I agree with the rest of it here..
I know it´s not very common/popular to spay here, but I would spay if it were me..

 

[victoria]

I guess I´ve already told you what I think, and I agree with the rest of it here..
I know it´s not very common/popular to spay here, but I would spay if it were me..

That's a good point... if your vet is not experienced and confident with rats spays, that's another reason to get the implant. I would definitely spay or get an implant though, 14 months is younger than usual to get a tumour.

 

[MissGuardian]

I guess I´ve already told you what I think, and I agree with the rest of it here..
I know it´s not very common/popular to spay here, but I would spay if it were me..

That's a good point... if your vet is not experienced and confident with rats spays, that's another reason to get the implant. I would definitely spay or get an implant though, 14 months is younger than usual to get a tumour.

One of my girls is spayed..
But it seems like here, it´s very looked down on no matter what the reason.. At least that´s my experience..

 

[Dazzle87]

If no one minds me asking, why is it unpopular to spay here? I personally spay all my rats (health permitting) as not only is the implant unavailable to me to my knowledge, but spaying also takes care of uterine issues. I had to have two e-spays done due to an invaginated uterus (I caught it before it came out of the vagina, but it would have eventually been a complete prolapse) and uterine polyps that caused vaginal bleeding. At the time i only had four rats too, although i understand these problems arent as common as it would seem from my 50% odds. It makes me apprehensive about leaving the girly parts in lol. So I personally would only be interested with an older, sick rat, since I have a vet who is very experienced with spays. I read victorias post too, they're pretty expensive for me compared to a spay, it's too bad they're not cheaper so they'd be more accessible for people. I am still intrigued by these implants though, since that would be great if you're adopting an older or ill rat.

How experienced is your vet? Also, as to the it may just come back anyway, your girl is so young that even if it did and you didn't have a second tumor removal you would still extend her life.

ETA from the way you worded your post, your vet sounds apprehensive about spaying, which would make me a bit uncomfortable. Did you get that.vibe from the vet?

 

[Tonje!]

Thank you for all your answers, it's really helpful!

I think the vet I went to has good experience with surgery on rats, she said that they had operated a rat with a 180 grams mammary tumor only two days ago and it went fine. And rodents/small animals is her speciality. So I don't doubt her expertise, but I'm still scared of spaying, although I know that I'm probably more scared of it than I need to be. Does most spay surgery go fine? Frida (the rat) is in really good health other than the tumor, although she is a bit overweight. Not a lot, but I'm trying to get her to lose some weight. She is now about 370 grams.

I read the thread you linked to Victoria, it was really helpful, thanks a lot.

By the way, I forgot to say that the tumor is still pretty small, and located in the groin area.

 

[Tonje!]

ETA from the way you worded your post, your vet sounds apprehensive about spaying, which would make me a bit uncomfortable. Did you get that.vibe from the vet?

Thanks for your answer

No, she didn't seem apprehensive about spaying at all, it was just that in the end she seemed even more eager on the chip. Maybe because it's still pretty new in Norway, so she is excited about it and insterested to see how it will work. Just guessing. But before she mentioned this (and maybe she mentioned it in the first place because I sounded reluctant to spaying because of the risk of dying in surgery), she did strongly recommend spaying.

 

[lizmo1221]

If no one minds me asking, why is it unpopular to spay here?

"Here" is in Norway, not in Canada or the States. I can understand that in a completely different continent certain procedures are very uncommon, especially a continent where good breeding and showing is very popular.

Your vet saying the spaying is risky makes me wonder a little bit. I think you should ask her (him? i forget) directly how many spays she has done and her comfort/abiilty with them. If she says that she is inexperienced, I would try to find another vet in the area that has more rat spaying experience.

Since you are getting a tumor removal done anyway I would say go with the spay, but only if you have a vet experienced and comfortable in that area. A healthy rat is very likely to pull through a spay at any age, but only if you have a good vet.

If you can't find a vet, I'd say get the removal and implant done.

Good luck!

 

[MissGuardian]

If no one minds me asking, why is it unpopular to spay here?

I´m not really sure, but I guess it´s considered a big and unnecessary surgery..

 

[Tonje!]

That was a good advice lizmo1221, to ask her how many spays she's done before and how experienced she is with that type of surgery.

Is it rude of me to call them tomorrow and ask to speak to her about this?

 

[Tonje!]

Spaying is also unpopular in Norway when it comes to dogs, while in other countries it seems like spaying/neutering dogs, at least males, is common procedure.

 

[Dazzle87]

If no one minds me asking, why is it unpopular to spay here?

"Here" is in Norway, not in Canada or the States. I can understand that in a completely different continent certain procedures are very uncommon, especially a continent where good breeding and showing is very popular.

!

Ah, I missed that the poster was talking of Norway. Thanks. I was just confused, because the
way I look at it is one surgery while young and healthy versus one or more while older and less healthy. To me it makes more sense to spay instead of remove tumors as the rat ages.

It's not rude at all to ask!

ETA the biggest risk with a competent vet is the anesthesia it's self, and that is usually only an issue when there is an underlying health issue. If she is already under anesthesia adding time under anesthesia isn't as big of a risk as going under in the first place.

 

[lizmo1221]

That was a good advice lizmo1221, to ask her how many spays she's done before and how experienced she is with that type of surgery.

Is it rude of me to call them tomorrow and ask to speak to her about this?

I don't think it would be rude at all. I mean, this is your pets health/life we are talking about, and she should understand that you want the best. Comfort level and ability is more important than experience I think. She could have done 20 nervously and badly, or 5 fantastically and with confidence. I would ask her about all of it (number, experience, comfort and ability). Don't be afraid to call another vet or two and ask as well.

If you can, try to speak directly to the vet. Going through receptionists can be lenghty and frustrating in my opinion.

 

[MissGuardian]

Spaying is also unpopular in Norway when it comes to dogs, while in other countries it seems like spaying/neutering dogs, at least males, is common procedure.

Never figured out why it´s so uncommon here..
Spayed rats f.ex often lives a lot longer..
You should also take into consideration the lower risks of PT(?) if you spay..
The reduced tumor risks(amongst other things, like I don´t want to have to neuter all my boys since I´ll continue with boys only) is one of the main reasons I decided to spay Nirvana.
She woke up within half an hour and started to try to climb on the day after the spay.
She needed Metacam for a few days, but the surgery went very well. She was 3-4 months when I spayed her if I remember correctly. If you have any questions about my spay(since we live in the same country), feel free to PM me either here or on NTF

 

[victoria]

When you ask your vet how many spays she's done, you should ask about post op infections, whether she has ever lost a rat in surgery (if she's lost one or two, it's not necessarily a red flag), and any other complications that relate to the surgeries she has done.

 

[Tonje!]

I've decided to spay her. Even though I'm scared, it feels good to have made up my mind.

My problem now is that I've been informed about another vet that is really good with rats. She doesn't have much experience in spaying rats, she said that she has only done it all by herself twice, but both times it went smoothly. She has done other types of procedures many times though, and she has never lost a rat in surgery if I remember correctly. Which is a pretty good sign. Also, the price at this clinic will be about 350 USD, while the first clinic I went to will charge about 520 USD. So even though price isn't the most important thing at all, it does matter a bit when both vets seems equally competent.

The only last thing I need to do before deciding on which vet to use is to talk to the first vet one more time. Only problem is that she's not at work today... But the receptionist sent her an SMS asking her to call me if she got the time. I hope she'll call soon.

 

[jorats]

Good luck!