Kaiser is Pregnant-[the litter ended up dying]

[CookiesAndCream]

I found out Kaiser's pregnant (at least she is showing the signs of it, she should be delivering very soon). Please don't get mad at me. When I let her and Brazil (my male rat) met I had no idea about the advice some of you gave me on my first post. I will take care not to have this happen again and I will be caring for the babies as well. However, I did find out(by tracing pictures back) that Kaiser is turning one in February so there is a higher chance of her and her babies turning out okay. I'm staying hopeful.

Any advice on diet, habitat, or anything else I can do for Kaiser or for when the babies come would be appreciated.

Thanks,
~Cookie

 

[victoria]

You should supplement her diet with additional calcium and protein - boiled eggs, a little ensure, baby cereal or formula (soy based) in addition to a good quality lab block would all be suitable. Harlan Teklad 2018 would also be a great staple food for mom and the growing bubs if you can get it. As for the cage, it should be a single level cage (so that mom doesn't drop any of the bubs from the shelves) with 1 cm bar spacing and a nest box. I don't know what the best type of bedding to use with bubs is, but I believe a few rescues here use paper towels or fleece and change it often.

I really hope you mean what you say about caring for all the babies and for Kaiser's and your sake that the litter is small. There are already so many rats looking for homes - 28 dumbo babies at my local SPCA alone.

 

[Dahlas]

I found out Kaiser's pregnant (at least she is showing the signs of it, she should be delivering very soon). Please don't get mad at me. When I let her and Brazil (my male rat) met I had no idea about the advice some of you gave me on my first post. I will take care not to have this happen again and I will be caring for the babies as well. However, I did find out(by tracing pictures back) that Kaiser is turning one in February so there is a higher chance of her and her babies turning out okay. I'm staying hopeful.

Any advice on diet, habitat, or anything else I can do for Kaiser or for when the babies come would be appreciated.

Thanks,
~Cookie

I was just wondering "how old are you?"
I would think anyone over the age of....lets say 10..... would know what would happen if you let a girl rat with a boy rat...when neither one is "fixed"
Anyway...good luck with the babies...Hope she has an easy delivery, a small litter and you keep all the babies....it is the only responsible thing to do...flooding the already over populated area with more rats looking for homes is not.
There are lots of great posts on here with info on what to feed and how to care for a pregnant rat and her babies.

 

[xxchelle]

You said you weren't going to breed, after I posted that link in your original post. I'm sorry you didn't stick to your word, and still decided to breed after reading how overpopulated the world is with unwanted rats, and how breeding pet store rats is dangerous. I hope that your rats aren't still alone, and I hope that you have suitable sized cages, as the one that is pictured in your original post with your boy in it is much too small as anything other than a travel cage.

I use fleece as bedding for all my rescue litters. Make sure you have a good, rat-knowledgeable vet on call in case there are any issues (I've had to rush birthing females to the vet before). Mom and babies should be together until 5 weeks, at which point the males should be separated. Mom can be kept with the females.

Make sure any cages you have for the babies is large enough for 2 cubic feet per rat - minimum. There are lots of online cage calculators, like the one found here: http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/information ... alculator/ to determine how many rats a cage can hold.

Where are you located?

 

[PitLuvs]

I think the OP is saying that her rat got pregnant before she came here and took our advice to separate them

 

[RiceMama]

I found out Kaiser's pregnant (at least she is showing the signs of it, she should be delivering very soon). Please don't get mad at me. When I let her and Brazil (my male rat) met I had no idea about the advice some of you gave me on my first post. I will take care not to have this happen again and I will be caring for the babies as well. However, I did find out(by tracing pictures back) that Kaiser is turning one in February so there is a higher chance of her and her babies turning out okay. I'm staying hopeful.

Any advice on diet, habitat, or anything else I can do for Kaiser or for when the babies come would be appreciated.

Thanks,
~Cookie

....................................

 

[victoria]

I think the OP is saying that her rat got pregnant before she came here and took our advice to separate them

I think she said she hadn't put them together yet in her original post - which means she was lying then or is lying now. I can't be sure though as she edited the post today so that it is consistent with Kaiser's current age estimate.

That being said, she needs advice and that is what we're her for. I truly hope she has learned her lesson and if she hasn't I will not bully her off the forum but I also won't waste my time giving her advice.

 

[xxchelle]

I think the OP is saying that her rat got pregnant before she came here and took our advice to separate them

In the intro thread, the OP thanked us for the advice and said "good thing I came here before I put them together".

 

[jorats]

It's unfortunate that the rat did indeed get pregnant. Our main goal now is to help with the delivery and make mom comfortable.
You've received some good advice already.

 

[Moon]

Before we all jump in a lynch mob, we have to remember that many people don't know that one meeting between unaltered sexes can end with a litter... we hear about it all the time. I seem to remember the OP saying in the original thread that she had let them meet briefly already, but her posts have all been edited at some point or another, which is pretty frustrating.

So lets limit any further comments to constructive advice.

Cookie, the babies will need to be separated by sex at 5 weeks old so get decent sized cages ready.

 

[Rissa]

If your dad didn't like the idea of two rats he sure isn't going to like the idea of all those babies. I would look over adoption contracts from some of the rescues and put one of your own together and start advertising for homes now. I would ensure you have more homes then babies since most people tend to drop out. Ask a nominal fee of $10-$15 to ensure the babies don't go as snake food. In this case I would also recommend deciding if you want to keep mom or dad then keep one baby of the same sex as company and re-home the other with a baby companion.

What day did you put them together?

 

[PitLuvs]

I think the OP is saying that her rat got pregnant before she came here and took our advice to separate them

In the intro thread, the OP thanked us for the advice and said "good thing I came here before I put them together".

Ah ok! I was unsure how the original thread went, I remember reading and posting but couldn't be bothered to go looking for the post to update myself. I was under the impression that she had put them together but separated when we advised her of what could happen. I'm all sorts of messed up now! lol

On another note...

Either way, OP is expecting babies. Let all make sure they have a great start at life! This forum can be a little intimidating to someone new to care of rats, we all can look like ratty experts judging every move to a new person. I know I have altered my way of saying things to avoid upsetting people, or ommited facts at the beginning of my membership here in fear of being judged while I learned. Best thing to do is help, so this doesn't happen again, yes? Now if OP makes the same mistake again, I would withdraw my support and help.

 

[CookiesAndCream]

I will reply to each of you in order of your posts:

I was just wondering "how old are you?"
I would think anyone over the age of....lets say 10..... would know what would happen if you let a girl rat with a boy rat...when neither one is "fixed"
Anyway...good luck with the babies...Hope she has an easy delivery, a small litter and you keep all the babies....it is the only responsible thing to do...flooding the already over populated area with more rats looking for homes is not.
There are lots of great posts on here with info on what to feed and how to care for a pregnant rat and her babies.

First off, I won't say how old I am, but I am older than ten. I know about the "birds and the bees" with rats. Originally I had planned on breeding them and let them meet once before I found this place. What I meant by saying "I had no idea about the advice I was given on the intro thread" was that I didn't know that you shouldn't breed store-bought rats.

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You said you weren't going to breed, after I posted that link in your original post. I'm sorry you didn't stick to your word, and still decided to breed after reading how overpopulated the world is with unwanted rats, and how breeding pet store rats is dangerous. I hope that your rats aren't still alone, and I hope that you have suitable sized cages, as the one that is pictured in your original post with your boy in it is much too small as anything other than a travel cage.

Where are you located?

As I said above, as PitLuvs said as well, I put them together (just to meet, not to live together). Believe me, after I read yours and the others' advice I wanted to rewind their meeting. Believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth. And...

I think the OP is saying that her rat got pregnant before she came here and took our advice to separate them

In the intro thread, the OP thanked us for the advice and said "good thing I came here before I put them together".

I didn't say that I hadn't put them together. This is what I said:

Thank you for the warning before it was too late (good thing I decided to join- Everyone I had talked to told me "go for it" or that was implied).

And by "too late" I thought that the one time they met they hadn't done anything. I did make the mistake of turning my back on them, but I never expected this to happen, really.

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Before we all jump in a lynch mob, we have to remember that many people don't know that one meeting between unaltered sexes can end with a litter... we hear about it all the time. I seem to remember the OP saying in the original thread that she had let them meet briefly already, but her posts have all been edited at some point or another, which is pretty frustrating.

Yes, I did edit that post because I panicked and quite frankly, I didn't want everyone doing exactly what they're doing now. I do apologize for editing that out, but please understand from my side. Most of the other post edits were innocent, like spelling/punctuation errors, and/or adding more to what I said.

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If your dad didn't like the idea of two rats he sure isn't going to like the idea of all those babies. I would look over adoption contracts from some of the rescues and put one of your own together and start advertising for homes now. I would ensure you have more homes then babies since most people tend to drop out. Ask a nominal fee of $10-$15 to ensure the babies don't go as snake food. In this case I would also recommend deciding if you want to keep mom or dad then keep one baby of the same sex as company and re-home the other with a baby companion.

What day did you put them together?

My father wasn't pleased, but I'm going to do the responsible and take care of these babies and he understands that. I do have one friend that I know to be a great pet owner who has asked for one or two of them. I told her I'm going to wait and see how healthy they are and if they are healthy I'll give her (a) baby/ies. However, the rest I intend to keep because they are my responsibility.

It was the 12th of December that I let them meet so she should be due very soon.

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Thank you PitLuvs, digitalangel, Moon, jorats, and victoria for giving me kinder and more constructive advice.

Kaiser is going to have babies and I can't stop it now and I will do my best to raise them well. I only hope that the Rat Shack would please stick by me. I am no expert on rats and I've never had a male and a female rat at the same time so this is a learning experience for me. Please stop the insults and pointing out my faults. Help me make good of this situation.

 

[Rissa]

I commend you for trying to do the right thing, but I need to bring up that keeping them may not be the right thing in this situation. The first thing you need to do is start looking into getting bigger cages for when the babies have to be separated by sex (5 weeks) As said before you are going to need 2 cu feet per rat. The average litter can be anywhere from 5-16? rats I believe. You stated before that you couldn't afford a neuter so can you afford an exam + meds for multiple rats? Do you have a vet that is experienced with rats that can treat them? How about a way to get to the vet? Do you have time to do out time for both males and females separately, and give them the attention they need?

Just some things for you to consider, you do have time to think about this but getting cages etc can sometimes be harder on a budget. Do you have a picture of the cage Kaiser is currently in?

 

[xxchelle]

Rats should never be housed alone, so please don't let your friend take just one baby. They must all go in at least pairs. Keeping rats alone is cruel as they're very social animals.

 

[PitLuvs]

What day did you bring them home from the pet store??

 

[CookiesAndCream]

I commend you for trying to do the right thing, but I need to bring up that keeping them may not be the right thing in this situation. The first thing you need to do is start looking into getting bigger cages for when the babies have to be separated by sex (5 weeks) As said before you are going to need 2 cu feet per rat. The average litter can be anywhere from 5-16? rats I believe. You stated before that you couldn't afford a neuter so can you afford an exam + meds for multiple rats? Do you have a vet that is experienced with rats that can treat them? How about a way to get to the vet? Do you have time to do out time for both males and females separately, and give them the attention they need?

Just some things for you to consider, you do have time to think about this but getting cages etc can sometimes be harder on a budget. Do you have a picture of the cage Kaiser is currently in?

I do have a few friends who would like rats but I want to know that I can trust them with the babies and, on a selfish note, I'd like them to be nearby so I can come see them on occasion. :3 But the important part is that they go to a good home and I want to be beyond sure of the person. I do have one person I know will take excellent care of ratties so if all goes well she will be first on my list.

As for the picture, I'll post it later (it's late and I need to go to bed). I will also look into getting another large cage (Kaiser's cage is a two-story ferret cage that was retrofitted with a smaller holed wire mesh around the outer surface (and it's super rat proof) for Brazil and the male babies (he's in a large guinea pig cage currently).) I'm also thinking about possibly doing this:http://www.dapper.com.au/grotto.htm with my dad.

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Rats should never be housed alone, so please don't let your friend take just one baby. They must all go in at least pairs. Keeping rats alone is cruel as they're very social animals.

Oh, that's very true. I would suggest that to my friends as well, I just worded it that way. But I agree completely.

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What day did you bring them home from the pet store??

I bought Kaiser around the 20th of February 2010, and Brazil came home the 11th of December 2010.

 

[PitLuvs]

I bought Kaiser around the 20th of February 2010, and Brazil came home the 18th of December 2010, I believe.

I'm confused, how did they meet the 12th, if you brought Brazil home on the 18th? lol

Reason I asked was I though you got Kaiser from the pet store, and was hoping maybe she got pregnant there instead of when you let them meet, BUT Feb 2010 was quite some time ago lol

 

[CookiesAndCream]

I bought Kaiser around the 20th of February 2010, and Brazil came home the 18th of December 2010, I believe.

I'm confused, how did they meet the 12th, if you brought Brazil home on the 18th? lol

Reason I asked was I though you got Kaiser from the pet store, and was hoping maybe she got pregnant there instead of when you let them meet, BUT Feb 2010 was quite some time ago lol

Right, no, I'm sorry. It was the 11th that I brought Brizzle (one of Brazil's many nicknames) home. Wrong weekend. The 18th I started winter break. Which makes more sense because I joined here the 16th and I had introduced both Kaiser and Brazil (which would be hard if I didn't already own him).

Unfortunately, no. However, funny you should mention that since I thought Kaiser was a male and her litter-mate, Amore, was pregnant when we got them (but Amore was just a fatty <3).
But anyways, yeah, February was a while ago so it was my lack-of-knowledge and amateurity that got Kaiser pregnant.

I'm going to say this now so no one blames me for changing my post to suit...whatever-I'm going to edit that last post so the date is right. I got it wrong because I didn't check my calender that I wrote down when I got Brazil (it's up in my room and I was too lazy).

OH! And how long does it normally take until a rat gives birth. I thought it was 3-ish weeks but Kaiser seems to be taking longer than that. Should I be worried?

 

[jorats]

Gestation is usually 21 to 23 days but some can go longer if they have been bred back to back. She should be popping very soon.