Christie
Well-Known Member
ooo ok. I'll let you know! thanks!
Is it really THAT bad to get rats from a petstore?
- Thread starter Christie
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Ahh this is a bit of a contentious topic.
As for me I agree with what dubchick had to say. I have petstore and rescue rats as both are in need of help. Furthmore pet stores will continue to sell rats regarless of where I get my rats from. However I hate petstores and won't buy pet supplies from them as they make more profit from this. Personally I avoid breeders as:
(1) I'm not into the fancy colours etc.
(2) Almost all my rats have really nice temperaments regardless from where they are from.
(3) I'm not convinced breeders are truely breeding for good health; and
(4) Assuming they are a good/responsible breeder, their rats aren't in danger or in desparate need of a good home and I'd rather give a home to a rat with greater needs.
Just my 2 cents.
As for me I agree with what dubchick had to say. I have petstore and rescue rats as both are in need of help. Furthmore pet stores will continue to sell rats regarless of where I get my rats from. However I hate petstores and won't buy pet supplies from them as they make more profit from this. Personally I avoid breeders as:
(1) I'm not into the fancy colours etc.
(2) Almost all my rats have really nice temperaments regardless from where they are from.
(3) I'm not convinced breeders are truely breeding for good health; and
(4) Assuming they are a good/responsible breeder, their rats aren't in danger or in desparate need of a good home and I'd rather give a home to a rat with greater needs.
Just my 2 cents.
PiedPiper
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, Dewi ... but, I just don't agree with that. Maybe I've got my head in the clouds or am just plain naive but I truly believe that petstores WOULD stop selling rats, cats, dogs, hamsters, budgies, fish, etc. if people stopped buying them. EVERYtime someone buys an animal from a petshop (no matter how sad, or sick or sorry looking they are) they are supporting some animal mill industry. :sad3: Reputable breeders (of anything) simply do not sell animals of their breeding to petstores. They just don't. But as you said, this is a contentious topic and I know that there are many who would not agree ....Dewi said:
PiedPiper said:
I will have to disagree with you and probably the majority on this group about this matter. I have put a lot of thought into this and did start out with a point of view similar to yours.
I know reputable breeders don't sell to pet stores, but I won't buy from reputable breeders as I don't see their rats as being in danger. The main reason I take animals in is because they are in trouble not because I'm after a specific pet. The reason why rats and other animals will continue to be sold in pet stores is because there are an abundance of people who will buy from them and this will continue because the majority of pet buyers aren't aware of how hideous the pet industry is and many of these people probably don't care enough about it anyway. Whether I buy a rat from a pet store and help them make a few dollars profit won't make any significant impact on the sale of animals, but it will make one heck of an impact of the life of the rat.
Having said that, I also adopt rescues, donate a heck of a lot of money to rescues and animal welfare groups, and use to help out the local rat rescue when it was still running. I also check out pet stores, complain to those stores who treat their animals badly and report them to the RSPCA... however as per usual the RSPCA largely has its hands tied. So I'm not some thoughtless person who insists on buying pet store rats. In fact over the last 3 years I've only bought 3 petstore rats, two of whom were pregnant. I kept them and their their offspring, and in that time I've adopted 10 rescue rats.
What frustrates me is when I read that people didn't buy that poor looking rat (or other animal) but at some other stage went and bought food, bedding, cages, toys or whatever from a pet store. That makes no sense as the store makes more profit from this and will stay in business longer. So IMO if someone wants to get rats from a pet store, do it so long as you can care for the rats properly, just don't buy other stuff from the store, and, at some other stage, adopt rescue rats if you have the room, time, love and finances for more rats.
The only way I see the sale of animals by pet stores ending is through legislation which requires large public awareness campaigns, preferably involving newspapers and TV. Hence why I support some of the organisations I support. At the moment there is growing public awareness, thanks to TV and newspaper reports about the cost and devastating effects of the pet industry. There is also a campaign running that seeks to stop the sale of mammals by pet stores and by non-reputable breeders (in one of the Australian states). So I've signed the petitions and written letters to my local member of parliament for myself and my family. There is such an uphill battle to get through. However this is more significant and has a greater impact on the pet industry than boycotting buying rats (especially rats in bad situation) from pet stores.
Sorry if I sound really cranky about this. Iâm not actually annoyed or anything, but I do feel very passionate about this topic.
DarkBlade
Well-Known Member
Question from a noob : By rescuing or a Rat Recuer, you mean like the person buys rats from pet stores, takes care of them at home and gives them away? Also, rescuing rats from SPCAs and abandoned. Or not the pet shop :shock:
Some rescuers have so many rats to give out, I wonder where they take them if it's not from a pet store.
Some rescuers have so many rats to give out, I wonder where they take them if it's not from a pet store.
lilratsy43
Well-Known Member
Dewi, I agree 100% with why you do not buy from breeders. I too am leaning in that direction. When you rescue you are saving a rat that otherwise has an unknown future, but rats from breeders will eventually be adopted, if not they stay in the home they were born in...But I do feel that there are some good breeders out there.
But I also agree with piedpiper, that eventually pet stores will stop selling live animals if ppl stop buying them. It's just there are many people out there that need pet store education!
But I also agree with piedpiper, that eventually pet stores will stop selling live animals if ppl stop buying them. It's just there are many people out there that need pet store education!
smilez_n_hugs
Senior Member
DarkBlade said:
Most of the rats in rescues are from people who bought rats before looking into how much work they are then when they decided they dont want pet rats anymore a rescue will take them in to prevent the rats from suffering through poor conditions or even becoming snake food. Also the large number of rats is also because of bad rat owners putting males and females together and the female ends up getting pregnant, then the owners dont know what to do so they hand them over to a rat rescue or shelter so they dont have to deal with the rats. I have also heard of some rescues saving sick or pregnant rats from pet stores but only because these rats are in need. I personally dont know of any rescue that buys them from a pet store just to look after and then give away. There are so many rats in need as it is that rescues just dont have resources to be able to buy rats from pet stores.
Hope that helps and welcome.
twitch
Well-Known Member
i ma not a rat rescue but i have rescued some rats. once you get a name out there that you keep rats and take in rescues, then people start crawling out of the woodworks so to speak. i've had a person buy a rat from the pet store that the clerk had told her was destined for the freezer if he didn't get bought because of his tilty head. so she buys him, knowing full well that she can not keep and brings him to me... not because i asked her to do it, just because she didn't want him to be frozen for food and then she heard about me... lovely little surprise at my door step there. i've also had rats brought to me that were in very poor health conditions because the owner couldn't afford, or didn't want to pay for a vet. then there are others that i have gotten because their owners were moving and didn't want to bring their rat with them, or because they thought their rat was aggressive and didn't want to bother learning proper introductions techniques. sadly there are enough of those cases and oops litters and pet store surprise litters that a rat rescuer or a rescue will have their hands full without ever needing to step into a pet store to cringe at the rats care there.if we could save them all, we would gladly do so, but we can't and so we have to draw the line in the sand somewhere so that we do not need rescueing ourselves.DarkBlade said:
as for the pet store issue itself, i kinda agree with dubchick. rats are not cats or dogs, they are not just sold as pets. they are also sold as food, they are not just a pet they are also a supply. they are going to be bought. in my area 98% of rats bought at the pet store are bought for food for another animal. those animals need to eat too. i don't like the idea that they are being my pet of choice but that animal didn't ask to be kept and bred as a pet that needs to be fed like that either. so i see nothing wrong in buying from the store if i or another rat rescuer doesn't have to clean up later. if you can care for, love and properly tend to the rat, then go for it. you are making a difference in that rat's life but don't disillusion yourself into thinking that you are saving rats from that store. you are saving THAT rat, but there are always going to be other rats to take that rat's place.
mind you, a lot of the time that is what you feel is happening with the rescue side of it too. it sometimes seems like there is always going to be more. that you can't stop or even influence how many rats end up homeless, starved, sick or otherwise abused by negligent or ignorant owners. the sad point of the matter is, there is no end to it if all we do is clean up after them. that person may not get more rats (or at least that is the home with some cases) but the world is not a small place and there are a lot of people in it that don't know about the animal they choose as a pet or never bother to learn. this is why educating is so important. but that takes more time and personally i find it even harder to do then to nurse a sick rat back to health. one on one educating when people ask about my rats is easy enough. but to reach large numbers, to reach the numbers needed and to get them to listen is very hard if not impossible for one person to do on their own. if i had the money i would donate to the organizations that do the mass educating. but even then, mostly they are concerned about is cats and dogs, then birds, then reptiles. then its a toss up between fish and pocket pets. you rarely hear anything about them...
anyway, to sum, the rescue business is a hard one with lots of battles ahead of it. does that make it wrong to buy froma pet store? no. it is easy to get from there. but if you get more from a rescuer or rescue. if you get from them you have a person to turn to for advice and a person to help match you with the perfect character for you as they know their rats and they can match what you are looking for in a pet with the rat that has it. for instance if you want a lap rat, you go to the store and pick up a male rat because they are supposed to be on average more laid back. but because of poor handling this rat is frightened, or just because of who the rat is as an individual he's adventerous and does want to sit for cuddles but would rather explore and terrorize the other animals in the house. you won't know what he's like until you get him home and settled. but a rescuer would have worked with their animal. they would know their personality and they would know their quirks. they would be able to pair a rambunctious, territorial rat with an experienced owner that enjoys that type of challenge and would be able to place the very forgiving, laid back rat with a new owner that still needs some help in learning what they need to know about rats. you wouldn't be able to get that from a pet store. and you wouldn't be able to call the pet store up at any time of the day to ask if such and such a behavior is normal for this rat or to ask what does this bump mean or that noise mean. so while getting from a pet store i don't think is wrong, i still think there are better places with more of a support system then from a pet store.
now if you've read all that wall of text and followed you get a cyber chocolate chip cookie of virtual yummyness!
and that is the end of my rantings... 
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
You definitely have a point Dewi. For me the definition of a rescue is a rat in need of a good home, going from a bad situation to a good one. But personally, I won't give my money to a pet store to buy a rat so that they can produce more rats. I also won't buy supplies at a store that sells rats kept in bad conditions.
I also agree that it's legislation that will change the way pet stores do their business and not having a few good souls out there that don't buy from such pet stores. For me it boils down to not giving my hard earned money to those evil people and continuing the cycle of suffering in a pet store. But.. I will not judge anyone who do.
I'm not a rescue, but I'm a person that will only adopt a rat in need of rescue. That means classifieds, accidental litters, SPCA, shelters and other rescues.
I also agree that it's legislation that will change the way pet stores do their business and not having a few good souls out there that don't buy from such pet stores. For me it boils down to not giving my hard earned money to those evil people and continuing the cycle of suffering in a pet store. But.. I will not judge anyone who do.
I'm not a rescue, but I'm a person that will only adopt a rat in need of rescue. That means classifieds, accidental litters, SPCA, shelters and other rescues.
Moon
Well-Known Member
I've stopped shopping at stores that carry pets at all, no matter the conditions.
So I am only left with Global Pet Foods and Pet Valu (in my area none of the Pet Valu stores carry animals but I know some do) I feel bad for people who don't have a proper pet supply store in their area and HAVE to shop at pet stores.
I don't think that people who go into PetSmart and buy a young rat should consider themselves saviors, I know I didn't when I bought two of my girls there. I do think the situation is a bit different with some stores though, especially who put older animals on the "chopping block" as it were... price slashed to move quickly! And heavens knows that if my local Doogans pet store was going to close I would go and get all the rats and then dance naked, laughing wildly in the mall because that horrible, disgusting place would finally be gone.
I also urge my customers to shop at pet supply stores over pet stores as much as possible. Usually I am doing it because my local Global is wonderful, and the people are awesome and very knowledgeable. But if people ask outright where I shop and why, I tell them truthfully.
So I am only left with Global Pet Foods and Pet Valu (in my area none of the Pet Valu stores carry animals but I know some do) I feel bad for people who don't have a proper pet supply store in their area and HAVE to shop at pet stores.
I don't think that people who go into PetSmart and buy a young rat should consider themselves saviors, I know I didn't when I bought two of my girls there. I do think the situation is a bit different with some stores though, especially who put older animals on the "chopping block" as it were... price slashed to move quickly! And heavens knows that if my local Doogans pet store was going to close I would go and get all the rats and then dance naked, laughing wildly in the mall because that horrible, disgusting place would finally be gone.
I also urge my customers to shop at pet supply stores over pet stores as much as possible. Usually I am doing it because my local Global is wonderful, and the people are awesome and very knowledgeable. But if people ask outright where I shop and why, I tell them truthfully.
Dee_Dee
Well-Known Member
I don't think it really bad to shop at pet stores. I really don't have a choice either but to get my rats at a pet store as the only breeder I found around my area wasn't that great to begin with. She is allergic to rats so the living conditions were poor for the animals she told me this was her last litter and I really hope it was.
My rats came from half pet store and half breeder. One of my rats came from a pet store where the owner brings in her own litters from home to sell. The rats I got from the breeder ended up being all aggressive and were all neutered, even the girl is bossy. My newest boy which came from the pet store they almost wouldn't let me leave without buying another one and a cage for them, I had to really explain to them that I had rats at home and a big cage already.
As for pet stores I will continue shopping their unless a Global pet food comes to my area, but If i had to choose over a rescue rat or a pet store rat then I would choose the rescue rat.
My rats came from half pet store and half breeder. One of my rats came from a pet store where the owner brings in her own litters from home to sell. The rats I got from the breeder ended up being all aggressive and were all neutered, even the girl is bossy. My newest boy which came from the pet store they almost wouldn't let me leave without buying another one and a cage for them, I had to really explain to them that I had rats at home and a big cage already.
As for pet stores I will continue shopping their unless a Global pet food comes to my area, but If i had to choose over a rescue rat or a pet store rat then I would choose the rescue rat.
I would definitely have to agree with ryelle I have never heard of my SPCA having rats for adoption there all cats and dogs there.ryelle said:
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
I am in NS and I can assure you that there are many, many rescue rats in NB and NS in desperate need of good homes.
Just have a look at the rats being dumped on kijiji or the in the rescue section of this forum.
It is certainly easier and quicker to buy from a pet store but there are many needy rescues looking for good homes. At present, I know of about 100 rescues in NB and NS waiting for good homes.
The SPCAs do get in rats in both NS and NB
Just have a look at the rats being dumped on kijiji or the in the rescue section of this forum.
It is certainly easier and quicker to buy from a pet store but there are many needy rescues looking for good homes. At present, I know of about 100 rescues in NB and NS waiting for good homes.
The SPCAs do get in rats in both NS and NB
Dee_Dee
Well-Known Member
Do you know of any rescues looking for a good home in Cape Breton?
Fidget
Senior Member
I just want to dispute this. SITH rattery in New Westminster BC is a good ethical breeder! Lizzy there goes above and beyond and devotes herself to helping ratties that aren't hers in every way she can, both for Rescues and individual rat 'owners', offering info and tireless hours doing all kinds of hands-on work. Right up top on her site http://members.shaw.ca/ratanist/sithrattery.htm she promotes Little Mischief Rescue as she always does!SQ said:
I don't know how many other breeders are like her in Canada but I know there's at least one who is way more than ethical!
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Fidget said:
It would be great if you are correct.
However, I was unable to find info. re her breeding practices, pedigreed rats with known genetic histories, health histories, etc. on her website.
I'll see about emailing her at some point to find out the info. that is of concern when looking for good ethical breeders.
Like others in the past, I thought someone met the necessary qualifications and was very disappointed when I discovered otherwise.
Sorry, no I don't.
But if you are willing to drive aways, there are many rats in other parts of NS.
Sarah has the best reply to this, and I don't understand either why people just cannot wrap their heads around the whole basis of our economy in this country being supply and demand. It really is a complete no brainer. And I hate that there is always someone out there that twists it around by saying that petstore rats deserve a good home too, like those of us who say no to petstores don't think those rats deserve good homes. Every single rat deserves a good home regardless - and that includes all those poor souls that live out their miserable lives in mills supplying the stinking petstores where people keep on insisting on buying rats from. Those are truly the rats that are being foresaken by people, the ones that are out of sight and out of peoples minds stuck offsite in the mills, NOT the ones in the petstores not being purchased.
I will guarantee you that there are places on this planet where there are absolutely NO rats being sold in petstores because there is zero demand for them. Then there are other places where it is illegal to feed live, and the rats in petstores are almost non existent. Who do you think got laws passed in those countries where it is illegal to feed live? Aliens from outer space? No, it was concerned people like us who did it. IT CAN BE DONE if everyone would just boycott these places and really be diligent about it. Plus, it never hurts to let them know why you won't be shopping there anymore.
Nobody gives a damn about rats but people like us. The average person thinks that the only good rat is a dead one, so we aren't going to get any help from them. Don't hold your breath for Rodent Mill Horrors to be discussed on Oprah any time soon. It is up to us to always do the right thing for them, even if it is not exactly convenient for us, and rescue them from sorry ends and help support those organizations and individual people running small rescues so they can continue to help them.
There are always alternatives to supporting animal mills and breeders, and the people on this forum will ALWAYS be there to help anyone looking for rescues. That is why this forum is the best rat forum out there. But, people have to sometimes be a bit patient and a bit accommodating. A rat is a rat is a rat and it doesn't matter what colour it is, where its ears are located, the colour of its eyes, or whether it is four months or four weeks (although I know some people don't want the seniors which I can tell you is a huge mistake because all my seniors have been darlings), but what does matter is the ethics of why the animal is alive in the first place and what your hard earned cash is supporting.
Wouldn't people rather have their money support those who really care about these creatures as much as we do, and not have their money be rewarding those who are heartless and couldn't care less about them? I can't understand why that isn't a no brainer as well.
I will guarantee you that there are places on this planet where there are absolutely NO rats being sold in petstores because there is zero demand for them. Then there are other places where it is illegal to feed live, and the rats in petstores are almost non existent. Who do you think got laws passed in those countries where it is illegal to feed live? Aliens from outer space? No, it was concerned people like us who did it. IT CAN BE DONE if everyone would just boycott these places and really be diligent about it. Plus, it never hurts to let them know why you won't be shopping there anymore.
Nobody gives a damn about rats but people like us. The average person thinks that the only good rat is a dead one, so we aren't going to get any help from them. Don't hold your breath for Rodent Mill Horrors to be discussed on Oprah any time soon. It is up to us to always do the right thing for them, even if it is not exactly convenient for us, and rescue them from sorry ends and help support those organizations and individual people running small rescues so they can continue to help them.
There are always alternatives to supporting animal mills and breeders, and the people on this forum will ALWAYS be there to help anyone looking for rescues. That is why this forum is the best rat forum out there. But, people have to sometimes be a bit patient and a bit accommodating. A rat is a rat is a rat and it doesn't matter what colour it is, where its ears are located, the colour of its eyes, or whether it is four months or four weeks (although I know some people don't want the seniors which I can tell you is a huge mistake because all my seniors have been darlings), but what does matter is the ethics of why the animal is alive in the first place and what your hard earned cash is supporting.
Wouldn't people rather have their money support those who really care about these creatures as much as we do, and not have their money be rewarding those who are heartless and couldn't care less about them? I can't understand why that isn't a no brainer as well.
Christie
Well-Known Member
Very well said Vanessa You have really opened my eyes to issues like this. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and understanding!
You have really opened my eyes to issues like this. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and understanding!dubchick
Well-Known Member
i agree with you vanessa... i really do!!.. my only concern with boycotting petstore rats is that there will always be people out there who will buy them... like people who buy them as feeders.. so until they stop buying the ratties also.... i just cant see pet stores stopping the supply... with the amout of rats that are sold as pets compared to feeders???? i dunno??? i just dont know if its enough... ??? if i knew for sure that me never buying another petstore rat would stop rat mills.. i would never ever get another! but with all those reptile owners out there that are either unknowledgeable about other feeding means, or just dont care, i really believe rat mills are gonna stay open :sad3: and its sad!
Boycotting is not the answer as it is ineffective. There will always be a demand even if every single rat lover out there stopped acquiring rats from pet stores. The demand comes from impulse pet buyers (such as parents buying impulsively for their pleading children); reptile owners; and rat "owners" who aren't really all that concerned about animal welfare issues. Boycotting simply reduces the chance (almost diminishes the chance) of pet store rats from experiencing a nice life.
In regards to people spending their money at a pet store to buy a rat, the cost of a rat (a mere $12 or so) is so small that it would not make that much a difference to the pet store. The profits made from purchasing cages, pet toys, food etc. would generate more profit and keep the store in business longer.
In addition to this, in Australia, it is illegal to feed live vertebrates (such as rats) to animals, but it goes on as it is too difficult to regulate and the laws aren't adequately enforced. Besides, people can still buy live and kill the animal before feeding it to a reptile or whatever. Countries where no rats are sold through stores most likely have effective laws preventing this from occurring and/or have a culture that does not consider pet rats and hence there is no demand.
For me this is a social issue that extends beyond rats. The whole trading of pets by pet stores and un-reputable breeders is completely out of control and there is a huge ethical and financial cost to society. Hence this requires changes in the law which (as mentioned in my previous message) requires petitioning and the involvement of the public, rescue groups (not just rat rescues), the media and politicians. This is where the efforts need to be made and which most likely arenât being made.
In regards to people spending their money at a pet store to buy a rat, the cost of a rat (a mere $12 or so) is so small that it would not make that much a difference to the pet store. The profits made from purchasing cages, pet toys, food etc. would generate more profit and keep the store in business longer.
In addition to this, in Australia, it is illegal to feed live vertebrates (such as rats) to animals, but it goes on as it is too difficult to regulate and the laws aren't adequately enforced. Besides, people can still buy live and kill the animal before feeding it to a reptile or whatever. Countries where no rats are sold through stores most likely have effective laws preventing this from occurring and/or have a culture that does not consider pet rats and hence there is no demand.
For me this is a social issue that extends beyond rats. The whole trading of pets by pet stores and un-reputable breeders is completely out of control and there is a huge ethical and financial cost to society. Hence this requires changes in the law which (as mentioned in my previous message) requires petitioning and the involvement of the public, rescue groups (not just rat rescues), the media and politicians. This is where the efforts need to be made and which most likely arenât being made.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Dewi, do your pet stores get their rats from breeders?
Most of ours get them from huge rat mills where rats live in overcrowded tiny containers, are thrown around by their tails, are sorted out, pinkies taken from mom and put in fridges to freeze... You can YouTube rat mills and you'll understand our total disgust and adamant no pet store policies. I don't want to link any videos here because the people who make those videos can follow their links here.
Most of ours get them from huge rat mills where rats live in overcrowded tiny containers, are thrown around by their tails, are sorted out, pinkies taken from mom and put in fridges to freeze... You can YouTube rat mills and you'll understand our total disgust and adamant no pet store policies. I don't want to link any videos here because the people who make those videos can follow their links here.
