Introducing Rocko~ all 3 boys together pg 8

[jorats]

It sounds like things are going pretty darn good and I think you are right, Norry might keep his position after all. That's awesome cause Rocko needs guidance.

 

[Petunia]

I got 12 short videos, and attached a few below

I noticed that Norry is least likely to back down if his brudder Dre is around, he is very protective of him!

Norry and Dre get tired out much sooner than Rocko does. I have been somewhat worried about them for a while now. they just seem a lot older to me than just 15 to 17 mos old (they're estimated age)
and Rocko seems much younger than what I was told he is (his previous owners said he's "almost 2", later they said he's "at least 18 mos")

one of the reasons I got Rocko was that Norry, especially, seems like an older rat. He has no obvious signs of illness, I just get a bad feeling about how easily he tires out.



ok here's a few of the videos; sorry they are so shaky, I was trying to stay close enough in case things got ugly, but not too close, because if I'm too close, nine times out of ten, one or more of them will come running to me LOL :roll: :heart: :giggle:
silly boys!!

this one is Norry claiming the box- Rocko eventually runs off to do something else (he heads toward me at first)
http://youtu.be/yihsL79nhcY

more:

http://youtu.be/tHMhX2ny4fA
http://youtu.be/p6LlxyIKw8E

this one is from early on in this session, watch Norry whip his tail around, wow! he was really annoyed.
http://youtu.be/dfOtyeV3O0g


please let me know if you see anything I could have or should have done differently

 

[SarahA]

Looks like their doing great, keep up the patience and I'm sure they'll get there eventually. Rocko is so funny with his boxing stance I had a huge smile on my face watching these videos.
Thank you for sharing and good luck!

 

[mamarat]

They look like a couple of kids. Cute videos.
BTW I love your slippers.

 

[dspch911]

Love the wind up tail :giggle: Rocko is a big boy ... Your guys look like they get along good. My destructo seven who have lived together since we got them in February don't play that nice together. I have to break up fights all the time... Your guys are doing great!!

 

[Petunia]

Love the wind up tail :giggle: Rocko is a big boy ... Your guys look like they get along good. My destructo seven who have lived together since we got them in February don't play that nice together. I have to break up fights all the time... Your guys are doing great!!

thanks
Rocko's really not all that big (although he has gained weight since I got him, that's true)
he just puffs up a lot :lol:

they are so careful with each other, it's really something. Getting Rocko neutered has made a big difference in him, he gets calmer every day.

:heart:

 

[Joanne]

I think they will continue to get better and better the more time they spend together. It's looking great so far!

 

[jorats]

Rocko really needs to learn something here and Norry is getting upset that he's just not getting it. lol
That was really interesting... will need several more sessions before moving forward.

 

[Petunia]

They look like a couple of kids. Cute videos.
BTW I love your slippers.

thanks!
yeh I :heart: the kitty slippers too, they're Snoozies. awesome slippers. Someone gave me a pair some time back and I thought they were so great, I got these ones with the kitty print for my sister. She didn't like them,though (the slippers, not the print)
so they came back to me :giggle:

 

[Petunia]

Rocko really needs to learn something here and Norry is getting upset that he's just not getting it. lol
That was really interesting... will need several more sessions before moving forward.

yeh as smart as that boy is, he's still got a LOT to learn about proper ratiquette.

Tonight he stole Dre's stash of noodles and peas and Dre was one very unhappy boy.
He went after Rocko and didn't back down, eventually there was a very short rat ball sort of- it didn't look like they got in any bites.
they were sort of holding themselves back off each other, like with their paws outstretched so their actual bodies were never that close. weird looking rat ball for sure

Norry had a few face offs with Rocko too but those never progressed into anything more than short staring contests

Dre didn't calm down about his beloved stash, so he kept getting up in Rocko's face. Rocko would run off to do something else, and Dre would chase him down and "have words" with him.

Finally Dre got fed up with Rocko and came and cuddled up in my arms, under my shirt.
Rocko came over a couple of times but he was still too wound up and wouldn't sit still.
I don't think he knows what is expected of him
and not being a rat, I"m not quite sure what Dre and Norry want from him either.
some sort of ratty apology, I suppose. :giggle:

I'm getting more concerned about Norry though, healthwise.
he looks tired and stressed out.
I don't know if it's good for him to keep going like this.

If he doesn't look any better by next week I think I'll have him checked out.
There's not a single sign of a definite illness, just he looks "off", tired mostly.

I am thinking that he is really more like 17 mos old. But even 17 isn't that old.
he doesn't look lazy to me, he looks TIRED.

what do you guys think? should I give him a break from the madness that is Rocko?

is there some illness that shows up as fatigue at first? there's no sneezing, sniffling, porphyrin, nothing.
no lumps that I can find, no bad smelling ears, normal pee and poop.

 

[jorats]

I did see the tired in Norry... so I think I would help him when Rocko goes to him. Each and every time Rocko goes in a threatening way to Norry, Use your hand as a block/like a wall and sweep him away with a firm No. This will help Norry and show him that you will protect him no matter what so the whole load is not on his shoulders.
If you stop intros now, you could undo all the progress so far.

 

[Petunia]

ok great, thanks!!
do you think Norry needs to see a vet?

 

[jorats]

No... I think it's the intros stressing him out. But keep an ear on his breathing. Rat phone him a lot.

 

[Petunia]

not much happening with intros

things seem to have stalled

 

[jorats]

You stopped the intros or they've become comfortable with each other and the area?

 

[Petunia]

You stopped the intros or they've become comfortable with each other and the area?

oh no, I didn't stop them, in fact they are out together for at least 2 hrs per day (an hour at a time or more)
because being with them is one of the few things keeping me from hitting rock bottom.
:nod: :heart: :heart: :heart:

I usually take Dre and Norry out first, and let them get a head start on the tasty treat that I put out (last night it was some cooked pasta, an all time favorite)
If I take all three out at the same time, Rocko hogs all the food and the other two go and huddle,
or try to grab some and hide it from him.
Rocko has NO manners at all!

so, I take Rocko out and he goes immediately to the food bowl and sits there chowing down, ignoring the other two
Whoever said he's big- er, he's definitely getting big! He just eats and eats and eats.

the most recent out time was pretty much like all the rest: Norry follows Rocko around and gives him stern looks, Rocko presses back against Norry and puffs up.
At some point, either Norry will run off and come back at Rocko from a different angle (usually face first)
or Rocko will disengage and come over to me (this only happens about er, a half hour into things, when Rocko is starting to get worn down)

they will stand up and face each other as if to box, but they both back down.
Norry has successfully kept Rocko from going under the cage.

from time to time, Dre and Norry will tussle with each other, like the usually do (very gently) but sometimes if they're just coming off a frustrating encounter with Rocko, they'll be a bit more aggressive with each other.

Dre and Rocko got into a rat ball and Dre got a little cut or bite, that was over so fast I didn't have time to intervene.

most of the out time is spent with Norry following Rocko around and I guess challenging him?
Rocko doesn't seem to have a clue what to do to appease Norry.

I moved Rocko's cage so that he can watch the other boys and hopefully learn from them.
I had it on top of the single CN most of this time :gaah: I should have thought to do this much sooner.
Rocko really needs to learn how rats act with each other!

so things seem to have stalled in the sense that there doesn't seem to be a clear alpha.

You know how you do that pressing on the top of the rats that puff up during intros? (I saw it in your videos) I tried doing that with Rocko. He just squeals and wiggles free most of the time.
:roll:
should I try to hold him in place? He backs up to free himself usually.

I think I got some video from last night, I have to look at it first because I was so concentrated on the boys I wasn't paying attention to where the camera was aimed-
it could be a long video of the floor or wall for all I know :lol:

I'm not really sure what to do next
we seem to be in a holding pattern.

suggestions?

 

[Petunia]

I think maybe the boys are all playing with each other now

is that even possible?

they were out today and they all got along so well.

this video shows the most intense interactions with the 3 of them, the rest of the time they were running around exploring, Norry and Rocko even got inside the laundry basket together and were fine with that.
I did see Norry put his front paws on Rocko's back twice, but Rocko was moving a bit at the time- it's not like he was standing still and Norry actually mounted him.
I watched a bunch of your intro videos again, Jorats, and if these two have decided who is alpha, they did it when I wasn't watching. :giggle:
It really seems like they are almost sharing the spot, except when they come together in a group- then it appears that Norry is on top, Rocko is second in charge and poor sweet nervous Dre is at the bottom of the pile.

I also saw Norry doing a LOT more scent marking than I've ever seen him do in all the time I've had him! he marked the blanket that's under the playpen and he furiously marked that ugly black rug. It seems the rug is what Norry was protecting before, not the area under the cage :giggle:
who knew a rug would be that special! :roll: :lol:

http://youtu.be/r2I5c-OcSkI


sooooooooo: I'm thinking the next cage clean out, they all go in together...........

and I'll sleep (or not :lol: ) on the floor in their room just in case things go south :nod: :thumbup:

what do you think? is it too soon?

ETA:helps to attach the video :roll:

 

[jorats]

Yes, when you press down, hold him, don't let him get away until you decide it's time to let him go. The squealing is a good sign! That means he's resisting your calming effect but keep him there until he "gets it".
You are doing such a great job with these guys. I agree, it might just be time now to try the move in.

 

[Joanne]

It was funny watching them. Lots of bum bumping but no one seemed serious about anything. Good luck!!!

 

[jorats]

This is so funny... Rocko is almost acting like a female trying to set up her "date". lol They do a lot of back kick, sliding them into position, doing catch me if you can dance. Little hops.
I'd give it a few more days still before move in.