intro question

[ChrisK]

Thanks for that input. I think we will go ahead and try it out this weekend as you suggest. I'm having a hard time explaining/convincing my husband that they need to work it out in non-neutral territory before cohabitating, although I personally see the logic in it. On the other hand, these girls have been getting familiar with eachother for almost a month, and mostly get along fine. Last night we introduced them on Skittles' sofa, and to our surprise, Skittles stood still and watched Lollipop while Lollipop ran all over her sofa checking things out. My husband interpreted that as Skittles' being afraid. There was no aggression on either part, and Skittles just held her paw out to stop Lollipop when she came up to her. It was very Zen-like I thought.
Thanks again for your support and advice.

 

[ChrisK]

Finally this Monday we're going to put the girlies together. I'm a little worried because this past week they've not been getting along as well as before. Skittles seems to have won one of the spats, and since then, they're staring eachother down a lot more, and not playing so much. I'm hoping that once we put them together for the full day, that they'll have their rumble or whatever and figure it out, and then maybe become friends. Anyway, we're going to be standing by all day once we put them into the same cage to watch.. I hope one day will be enough!

 

[jorats]

I think they have reached a point that they need to set guidelines and because they don't live together, this can't be done.
I'm putting my money on a smooth moving in. Let them work out any issues, squabbles, boxing, flipping are all normal when they first move it together. Make sure they have something very yummy to eat when you first put them in the cage together.

 

[ChrisK]

Thanks for the info/heads-up. We're only in hour 2 of the "move in" but I've seen a few things that just tickle me, so I had to write an update. I've seen Lollipop turn belly-up in the hammock and Skittles grooming her tummy while Lollipop just lay there wagging her tail! I've seen the two girlies sitting side by side on the ferret-tunnel-bed, thought they were going to sleep but not yet. They are grooming each other lots and lots (although they seem plenty clean to me LOL!). I'll write in after they've been thru the whole cycle. They're starting to get very tired now, so I expect the real test is yet to come. But oh my they are SO cute!

 

[ChrisK]

Looks like all is well in Skittles and Lollipop's kingdom! Their schedules are not quite in sync yet, and they sleep in separate places in the same cage, but they're getting along very well all in all. The first full day, I saw Skittles trying to wake Lollipop up to play, 'cause she wasn't tired yet! And then later in the day, I saw Lollipop trying to wake Skittles! So I think they're doing just fine. Thanks for all your support and advice on introductions.

 

[lilangel]

Looks like all is well in Skittles and Lollipop's kingdom! Their schedules are not quite in sync yet, and they sleep in separate places in the same cage, but they're getting along very well all in all. The first full day, I saw Skittles trying to wake Lollipop up to play, 'cause she wasn't tired yet! And then later in the day, I saw Lollipop trying to wake Skittles! So I think they're doing just fine. Thanks for all your support and advice on introductions.

:happydance: :joy:

 

[Godmother]

This must be so gratifying! I love seeing lone ratties bond to a new friend. :heart:

You guys can congratulate yourselves on a job well done. :thumbup:

 

[jorats]

There really is nothing sweeter than seeing your rats bond. I love the part of them trying to wake the other to play. :heart:

 

[ChrisK]

Had to share this one with you all... Yesterday I looked in our girlie's cage and I didn't see EITHER of them. So I lifted the empty tissue box (plastic previously removed) and found them both together inside! Well, that just made my day! I surmise that this means they're snuggling together. :cuddle: :thumbup:

 

[jorats]

Yes they are!

 

[ChrisK]

We just returned from the vet's office. I'd noticed a few scabs on Lollipop's neck over the weekend. By Monday evening she had at least 6-8 large bloody or scabed spots on her upper back as well as some on her upper and lower eyelid on one eye. The vet's office suggested we bring both ratties, suspecting they could pass whatever this is to eachother. But a good exam showed only Lollipop had any markings, Skittles had none. The vet checked a scraping from Lollipop under a microscope and found no parasites. He said the injuries were consistent with bites. We have concluded that Skittles has been biting Lollipop and has caused her injuries. :sad3:

Skittles used to nip us as a matter of course when we first brought her home. But she stopped. I was really stunned to realize she has started hurting Lollipop! We do see them nip eachother from time to time, but never saw blood. We do see Skittles mount and nip Lollipop when she's in heat, but again, no blood. I don't know why after two weeks living together, suddenly Skittles has gotten so rough with Lollipop. :?

And frankly, I don't know what to do about this. For now I've put them back into separate cages and am only allowing supervised visits. I think Lollipop needs time to heal before we do anything more.

Is there a way to train Skittlles to stop biting Lollipop? Should I just keep them separate from now on and leave it at that? Does anyone have further insight/ideas on this and how to handle this? or why this would start happening after two weeks of successful cohabitating?

 

[jorats]

UGH! Skin scrapings are always negative but it's almost always due to mites. Not both rats will have scabs either, only the one with lower immune system.
I'd definitely put them back together and do a mite treatment.
Also... buggies will cause rats to become grumpy and off their character.

 

[ChrisK]

What's a mite treatment? Do I need to return to the Vet for that?

 

[jorats]

If you can get your hands on Revolution then no but if you can't Revolution would be the best treatment.
The vet can also prescribe Ivermectin. There is no harm in treating your rats for mites/lice should they not have it.

 

[ChrisK]

Thanks! I've contacted the vet and he's going to prepare Ivermectin for me to pick up today. I noticed a new scab on Lollipop this morning, and she and Skittles are still in separate cages. So it's looking like bugs alright! I was thinking to keep them in separate cages until they've each had a dose and a day to start feeling better. I am noticing Skittles is more aggressive at the moment -- grabbing Lollipop's skin in her mouth and tugging -- but honestly, I don't know if this is typical rat play or not. Is there a video clip somewhere showing typical rattie play? After the diagnosis the other day, my perspective is out-a-wack..

 

[jorats]

That is indeed typical rat behavior, very maternal, very come here with me type of thing. I'd get them back together as soon as you can. :wink2:

 

[ChrisK]

Friday evening I gave both ratties ivermectin -- the vet gave me a prescription. I put them back in the same cage together and they seemed happy as clams. Sunday morning when I got up, I found that Lollipop had yet another new bloody marking on her back -- easy to spot because it was fresh -- and it looked like most or all of the scabs on her back had been scratched or chewed at. Honestly, poor Lollipop, she's got so many sores now. I don't know if the ivermectin is working or not. A few questions:
1 - how long does it take for ivermectin to kick in; and also how long for these scabs/marks to clear up typically?
2 - She gets only one dose a week (0.1ml). Would an extra dose in a few days be helpful or harmful? Or maybe ivermectin just doesn't work for her?
3 - do you know of anything that helps boost rat immune systems? I saw vitamins in the pet store -- not sure if they would help?
4 - If this is NOT mites/bugs, what else could it be? I've increased the amount of veges and lowered the amount of seeds in their diet -- in case it's diet related. I use all-fleece bedding only. Am I missing something? Other than the bleeding sores, she seems/acts normally.

...thanks...

 

[jorats]

Sounds like you are doing everything good.
Don't give anymore ivermectin, once a week for 3 to 4 weeks is all you need. Scabs can take a few weeks to heal and disappear.
If you want to boost your ratties immune system, give them some blueberries.

 

[ChrisK]

Today it's been one week since the first dose of Ivermectin. Lollipop still is scratching and bleeding. A few sores have scabbed well, but she's still covered in them, and new ones are still appearing. I am wondering if the Ivermectin isn't working, and thinking of asking the vet for Revolution. Does this sound right? Or do you think I'm being too anxious? And if I switch to Revolution, is one week since the Ivermectin dose long enough to wait so that there are no issues due to drug conflicts? (I'm thinking of it today especially because she's due for her second dose of Ivermectin tonight.)

 

[lilangel]

I was told to wait three to four weeks before dosing again with something else(i have horse paste that i use) and i got rats in that were treated with rev but i wanted to be sure. As i think the Ivermectin stays in their system for a while and if you dose again with rev you would over dose them.

Horse paste for me worked great. I'm not too sure if Ivermectin from the vet is the same as the horse paste(you can buy this at apple saddlery.)

But both work good for me rev and the horse paste, just horse paste is cheaper to get and easier to get since every rescue i get in is treated i need the item on hand all the time.