intro question

[ChrisK]

Hmmm. It looks like having the day off helped the situation. Lollipop was still the dominant one today, but not as aggressive as last time, and Skittles even put Lollipop in her place once. I think it's going better, but no cuddling yet. We will continue daily intros looking for the cuddles. I don't know how long it'll be, but I'm determined not to rush them.

 

[ChrisK]

We're rounding out the first week of introductions. The girls interacted immediately last night at the start. Lollipop still being alpha rat, but Skittles holding her own *some* of the time. No serious fighting except once or twice in the hour, and I broke it up. Mostly sniffing and Skittles groomes Lollipop, but Lollipop is not grooming Skittles. I hear a little squeek most times when Skittles groomes her. I *think* it's Lollipop making the squeek, but can't be sure as they're so close to eachother at the time. Not sure what the squeeking means. Lollipop keeps taking away food from Skittles whenever she's eating (there's plenty there for both of them, so it's a dominance thing). Still no cuddling, although last night they seemed to be getting plenty tired by the end. They both seem to stare in our directions, wanting to interact with my husband and me. I have a few questions. (1) is it normal to take as long as this or longer for intros? (2) should we interact with them too during the intro-meetings? (3) any thoughts on what the squeeking means? (4) should I maybe not be breaking up the fighting at this point? I'm not sure how much fighting is okay.. Thanks in advance!!

 

[jorats]

Definitely go ahead and interact with the rats during intros.
Squeaking while grooming can be: "oh ya, that feels so good" or "hurry up, I've got things to do".
Some fighting is normal. At this point, since it's been a week and they've really gotten to know each other, I'd scrub down the cage real good and put them in together and watch them for the better part of the day.

 

[ryelle]

Is it better to do that on a morning, Jo, when they are sleepy or just about to sleep for the day? or doesnt it matter?

 

[SQ]

Do it when you have a whole day to be around just in case there is a problem.
I would try them in nonneutral territory such as their play area before putting them in the same cage ... I am assuming the table top intros were neutral territory intros.

 

[ChrisK]

Yes, the table top intros were neutral territory intros. I kinda like that idea -- putting them together non-neutral territory first. That'll be easy enough to do! The whole house is non-neutral except the kitchen table and the bathtub.

We took them out again early this evening and interacted with them during the intro. It was hilarious! At one point I had two ratties running up my sleve after eachother!

 

[jorats]

Is it better to do that on a morning, Jo, when they are sleepy or just about to sleep for the day? or doesnt it matter?

I've never given that much thought really. I did it at all times. I'll have to watch next time which is better.

 

[ChrisK]

Update: The girls are still having nightly intros. I purchased a new cage for them a few days ago, and we're planning to wait until the long weekend to put them in it together because we'll be around to keep an eye on them for three days.

In the meantime, Skittles has become more aggressive and Lollipop less so. Sometimes it seems the balance has completely shifted. Last night and this morning I witnessed a new behaviour and I'd like your opinions on this. Lollipop keeps jumping around. She goes near Skittles, lets Skittles touch her, and then jumps a little bit forward, then a little more. It almost looks like she's playing or trying to get Skittles to follow her. But Skittles doesn't follow, she just stays put. I thought Lollipop was just playing but then this morning I noticed that Lollipop was jumping around but not necessarily trying to get Skittles attention first.

Does this sound like playful behaviour, or some type of dominance thing? I'm even wondering if Lollipop is trying to protect herself from Skittles or something, as Skittles has become more aggressive and it seems the balance of power may even be shifting.

Thanks in advance for your input!!

 

[jorats]

Your sweet little Lollipop is in heat. :giggle: ...and this urges Skittles to um help her out in a way, which is why you might think that Skittles has become aggressive. She's not she's trying to help.

 

[ChrisK]

LOL! The thought never even crossed my mind! Well, that puts a new spin on things I think in that case, they're getting along very well together so far! At least in neutral territory.

A few times I've put them in less neutral territory -- Lollipop's play area or Skittles' play area -- and they always end up in a fight of some sort.

We've decided to move up their "moving in" date to next weekend, since we've been able to clear the schedule for most of the weekend. What are the referee rules once we put them in the same neutral cage? Is some fighting okay and if so, at what point do we break them up? We figured we'd stay nearby and keep an eye on them for 12 hours. Is that usually enough? I've read from different sources and it sounds like ratties may fight for several days when first together. I'd hope if they break into a serous fight it'll be when I'm there watching, and not the next day when I have to go back to work, and not there to help out.

 

[Moon]

If they're still fighting in non-neutral areas I wouldn't put them in cage yet.

 

[jorats]

What kind of fighting are they doing? Some fighting might actually be part of playing.
Going into a neutral cage is ideal.

 

[ChrisK]

To clarify: They're not fighting in neutral areas at this point. They groom and push eachother away here and there, but no serious fighting.

The only fighting they've done lately is in the NON-neutral areas, i.e. playareas associated mostly with Lollipop or mostly with Skittles.

We haven't been putting them in those playareas at the same time since the last fight, a week or so ago now. Is this something we should be working at before putting them together in one cage?

 

[Moon]

Yes, absolutely. If it's actual fighting, they are not ready to go in cage yet.

BUT, as Jo said, sometimes playing can look like fighting.

 

[ChrisK]

oh sorry! I mis-read what you'd written about fighting in non-neutral areas. In fact, I haven't put them in non-neutral areas for about a week now. I will try it again this evening and see how it goes.

It seems during their nightly intros in neutral areas they're getting along very well.

 

[jorats]

At this point, you should move the intros in a non neutral area, once they are good in that play area, then they are good to move in together.

 

[ChrisK]

We took them out in a non-neutral area last night. Lollipop's play area (the green sofa). Wow was it ever amazing to watch this! They rumbled briefly twice. My husband and I stayed on the couch with them and we broke up the rumbles and then we pet them both at the same time. They stood there frozen staring eachother face to face a few times. But no major fighting after that. Tonight we're going to let them play on the other sofa, which is Skittles' territory. I'm less frightened about this, as Skittles is more submissive, but she holds her own.

 

[jorats]

That's pretty funny, they each have their own sofa... If all goes well on Skittles' sofa, then do all the other intros on Lollipop's sofa, she needs to learn to share.
It doesn't sound like the fighting is bad at all, just skirmishes which is pretty normal.
What's the plan now? When are they moving in together?

 

[ChrisK]

We're hoping to still be able to move them in together this weekend. If they're still having squabbles at that point, we could move it out another week and do it on the long weekend. So I'm playing it by ear for now.

 

[jorats]

I'd go ahead and try moving them together regardless of squabbles. It might very well be that Lollipop won't settle down until she's claimed victory in a "habitat" setting over Skittles. So once they've moved in together, if Skittle submits to Lollipop then peace should come back to rattie kingdom.