Glucosamine and older rats?

[Pink]

V is fitting in charmingly with my rats! I have a wonderful group of rats that get along really well, so I had no concerns. She hasn't figured out how to leave the second level of the FN yet, but has found friends there. No arguments or anything, everyone is just like "oh, another rat, awesome, want to snuggle?" I think she was weirded out the first time four rats piled into her box and fell asleep on top of her, but later she wandered into a hammock with two of my rats.

mamarat - I have a huge soft spot for oldies too. I wouldn't have taken V if she was younger, I am trying really hard to bring my numbers down to 5 or 6. I just couldn't say no to such a cute little 3 year old. I will be putting hammocks anywhere she can fall (probably need to make myself a few new flats). Maybe I can devise some sort of handrail, I'll have to think that one through.

Dewi - Thanks . Here in Alaska only PEWs are legal, but himis and siamese regularly show up. I do have one hoodie, but he had to travel 800 miles to get here. V makes my crew 5 PEWs, 3 siamese, and one black hooded. I'm moving to Illinois in a year and already have plans for what rats I will be looking for . I want to find one or two more hoodies, a dumbo PEW, and find a downunder from a good breeder. I am not interested in the hoodies or the PEW being babies, and would be more than happy to find oldies. I would love an agouti too. Plans.... First I have to make it to Illinois!

Pink

 

[Pink]

More V updates, though I should probably move this over into a thread in the oldies section:

Even though its only been a couple days, she is looking a LOT better. Her coat is filling out, she's gaining weight, and her tail has cleaned up. She has integrated well into my group, but my two youngest boys still try to wrestle with her at times. I've been locking them into the lower half of the FN when I'm not home so they don't harass her too much. They aren't being mean, but its still more than I am willing to put up with. (They were both neutered months ago). Their behavior does seem to be improving, but I won't be home for a full day again until Saturday, so they will just spend parts of the day locked up for now. She has absolutely fallen in love with cubes, so I put one on the middle level so she doesn't have to go up the ramp anymore. Since the cube is a favorite stashing site for some of my rats, she always has lots of blocks available.

She gets two baby cereal/ensure/homemade chicken stock meals a day. One has a ml of glucosamine in it to help her joints (1 mL comes out to about 240mg/kg a loosely recommended amount for rats). I don't know what I would do without a FN, during meal time I lock everyone else out of the top half of the cage, so she can eat in peace (during the first meal everyone is free ranging, during the second they are eating in the bottom half).

She has gained 25 grams since Saturday, which is pretty remarkable since she only weighed 263 to begin with!

Pictures!

Yesturday's dinner:

Today's dinner:

She's so cute, I'm extremely glad I brought her home. Her quality of life has increased drastically, and I really like having her around. She's been pretty spoiled rotten since the moment she got here. My 42 (nearly 43!) month old doesn't get nearly this much babying!

Pink

 

[jorats]

You are trying to make up for a lifetime worth of loving for an old gal... she's a lucky girl. And she knows how a rat eats, without leaving the hammock/cube. :giggle:

 

[Pink]

Another update on V -

I've never taken in a rescue this old or deteriorated before. If she had stayed where she was she would have probably been dead in a week or two. Her conditions weren't bad, her owner just didn't know what to do with her, and consequently she suffered greatly.

I wasn't prepared for just how much of a change I have been seeing in her. Every day there's something new to celebrate. Two days ago it was her coat improving, Yesterday it was gaining 25! grams, today it is her getting excited every time I came near the cage. I open the door, and she jumps out of where ever she was to come and say hi. She doesn't seem to want to snuggle yet, but is definitely not shy.

She is still devouring any food I place in front of her, and I'm sure she has at least another 25 grams to gain. Though it is technically too early for the glucosamine to be working (from personal experience I think it works much quicker than people give credit) she seems to be a lot more comfortable. That could just be because of the quality food and environment though. Her new favorite hang out spot is the litter box.... I wish she'd find a place a bit more sanitary! I am worried about the possibility of her getting bumble foot, so I'm cutting up towels to fit under the fleece to keep it dryer and softer. Her poor feet just kinda end up wherever, and I'm concerned about sores forming. I have lowered the shelf in the FN to make it easier to acces, but this ruins nearly every hammock in the cage, so I may try to see if I can figure out something else.

Pink

 

[eagle]

V sounds like a happy older lady in the making. She has a wonderful mom in you Pink and she knows it. It won't be long before she is a snuggler. :heart:

 

[jorats]

I've always told my mom when we look at ads online, when you see scruffy rats, it's not an indication of illness but an indication of improper care and bad diet. It's amazing how TLC and food does a big difference to a rat.

 

[Pink]

Certainly not an indication of illness for V, she has been an amazingly healthy rat her entire life. Not one URI, tumor, or anything. TLC does a lot, and I'm grateful I have been given the opportunity to give it to her.

Pink

 

[Dewi]

How long do you estimate glucosamine to kick in? If you think it does make a difference, I'll definately give it another go on my rats. Just got to work out something to disguise it in that won't cause my fat rats to get fatter.

I'm so glad that V is settling in & doing well. She does look really cute with her head poking out of that cube eating her dinner. Our reward for rescuing is seeing the rescues be happy and you've certainly acheived that.

 

[Pink]

Traditionally, its considered to take 2 or so weeks for glucosamine to make any difference. But, from my own experience its nearly instantaneously. My boyfriend and I are big hikers who take glucosamine on long (couple hundred mile) trips. We can tell on day 2 or so that we've been taking it, and can always feel it if we missed a pill for any reason. I think V is already showing a lot of improvement from it, though her back feet still curl and don't know quite where they are going, she is able to use them to a certain extent now. She's not hoping around like a one year old again, but she can comfortably wander around the cage; she could not do that a week ago.

I highly recommend giving it to your rats, there really is nothing in it to possibly harm your rats, so there is nothing to loose. You might be able to give it to your rats strait, but its a lot of liquid. The brand I have is flavored like lemon lime, and its not that bad. A good baseline to work from is about 240 mg/kg. All the liquid glucosamine I've seen has been 1,500 grams per an ounce, one ounce being a human dose. This works out to a little more than 2 ml/pound of rat. Some people recommend tripling this dose to 1/10th of the human dose. The main concern is that you may upset your rattie's tummy if you start with a high dose at first, so work your way up over a couple days. I may start giving V another half ml and see how she handles that. You could always mix it with block dust if your rats are a bit pudgy, baby cereal is pretty high calorie.

Another picture! From left to right it is Sweetness (43 months now, you can see her tumor), V (36 months) and Dangerous Beans (only surviving sister at 19 months, been fighting a URI for 13 months) enjoying their special dinner. After V eats up her glucosamine, and Sweetness and Dangerous Beans finish being nebulized, they all get extra baby cereal and ensure for calories, they could all use a bit more weight. Everyone else gets locked up in the bottom of the cage and just gets a small amount of Suebee's with blocks

Pink

 

[Dewi]

With glucosamine I have the powdered form (from the vet) and my hubbies tablets. So I'll use these, I haven't actually seen the liquid glucosamine but I haven't really looked for it. They will start getting it tonight in some thickened soy milk. I'll use low fat yoghurt for the fatties.

My guys hate rat blocks, plus the rat blocks here (Australia) are low quality.

Thanks

 

[Pink]

Bad news - V is heading downhill really, really fast. She started showing signs of a URI yesterday and within hours she crashed. I gave her baytril, and in order to keep her alive overnight I used a nebulizer with abuterol. She was at the vet when they opened, and got subq fluids (ringers with Vit B?) a penicillin shot and dex. While being given subq she peed blood. She is now gasping, and I am nebulizing her about once an hour. I don't think she'll make it, but I'm doing everything I can for her.

I'm taking it really hard, I feel for this girl hard, and have had such a wonderful time showing her what it means to be a happy rat. She has still been improving, and I really thought she would be around awhile more. She's way too sweet to die like this.

Pink

 

[SQ]

I am very sorry ...

You might consider whether it is time ... and think about having her pts humanely by a vet.
See posts on having a rat put to sleep.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9582&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=how+to+pts

 

[mamarat]

I'm so sorry, you tried so hard. :hugs:

 

[Pink]

I took her in and she passed peacefully. I couldn't make her suffer for me anymore. I miss her a lot, she really made a huge impact in my life the three short weeks she was here.

SQ, thanks for linking that, but this is far from my first time putting a rat to sleep. So far every experience but one has been wonderful, and that one is the reason I will never again go to the e-clinic here in town. I now walk out of clinics if they won't do Iso and then a heart stick once the rat is really deeply under.

Pink

 

[Godmother]

I'm so sorry. What a heart-breaking experience to watch a beloved rat gasp for breath. I am glad that she had a merciful death.

 

[eagle]

I am so sorry Pink. V was a very loving special rat that knew the true meaning of love when you took her in and made her comfortable in her last days.
RIP V
Hugs to you Pink

 

[jorats]

I'm so sorry Pink... You sure gave V a good life, even though for a short time...she still had it.