Glucosamine and older rats?

[Pink]

I brought home a three year old rescue today that's not looking so good. She had an ok owner before, the cage was big enough, but didn't have hammocks or shelves. She had a buddy and got plenty of out time, but her buddy died three weeks ago from complications from tumors. I took her in as I have a big soft spot for oldies, and felt horrible about her living alone.

She is skin and bones and has major hind leg degeneration, she is barely able to move them. She still tries to climb to the top of her cage though! I gave her some baby cereal mixed with ensure and she gulped it down. I don't think she's been getting enough to eat recently. She was fed Kaytee blocks for the last three years. I'm switching her onto HT but I don't know if she can handle the hardness of blocks. I will continue to supplement her with baby cereal and blocks soaked in ensure.

I give glucosamine to my older kitty (and us humans!), and have heard it mentioned for rats, but never anything about dosages. She is a tiny little girl, only about 260 grams. I use liquid glucosamine that has 1500 mg of glucosamine for every 1 oz. It also has 30 mL of aloe vera per ounce. How much should I give her? How about my 42 month old girl that is just starting to slow down (another old rescue, but she's in a lot better shape). Is there anything else I can do for her to make her feel better?

She has a lot of black crud on the end of her tail. I assume its just dirt and stuff, it doesn't look any nastier than that. I was planning to use some olive oil to help loosen it and get it off. She is no longer able to lift her tail off the ground when she walks.

I would post a couple pictures but the camera is MIA.

Pink

 

[jorats]

Awww... that poor little one. Adding olive oil to her diet may help her gain some muscle mass.
Also a member here has posted this about glucosomine and b12.

I crush the glucosamine/chondroiten into a fine powder and give Roquefort a 1/4 teaspoon 1-2 times a day.

He gets the liquid B12 mixed in with his food once every other day. The dosage is 0.005 so I just fill the pipette and rub a tiny drop onto my finger. (don't press out an entire drop because that is WAY too much!!!!)

From there I just stick my finger into his baby food and then wipe my baby food finger clean on the side of the little dish I use.

I hope this helps.

 

[Pink]

Thanks jorats, I did see that, but it doesn't say anything about concentrations. I have liquid so its not the same concentration.

I was planning to give her some olive oil on bread and some flax seed oil (some super good fats). I'm going to let her tummy settle for a few hours after having wolfed a bunch of baby cereal down.

Pink

 

[jorats]

There is a yahoo group for holistic remedies for rats, I bet you would find what you need there. And maybe come back here and let us know.

edit: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/holistarat/

edit again: I usually add the oil in the baby cereal, they seem to really like it that way.

 

[Godmother]

I was across the border today picking up a Martins "holiday cage" for my three oldest rats. I saw a big bottle of liquid Glucosamine/chondroitin for horses, and I was tempted. But I had the same dilemma that I would not have known the right amount to give.

 

[Pink]

I posted the same thread here and goose, figuring I'd get more response on goose. Well, I think I may have found myself a new fourm I need to spend some time on.... I haven't gotten a single response on goose yet.

I have applied to join the group on yahoo, so I just have to wait until I'm approved. I'm sure it won't be long, the group seems to be really active.

I gave her another spoonful of baby cereal with some flax seed oil and a tiny bit of glucosamine. She seems to love it.

I let her roam around the rat room some, she's so silly. She doesn't seem to realize that the back half of her body doesn't keep up with the front. She's super curious, but not very snuggly. I took some olive oil and wiped down her tail, hopefully I can loosen up some of the nasty black gunk from her tail. I also put a bit on her shoulders as her coat is pretty dry (and I had it on my fingers when I went to pet her). Hopefully better food will help with the coat.

Here are some pictures post oil being added to the coat:

She's a bit flashed out here (hard to not flash out a PEW.) You can see her nasty tail here, its worse on the bottom, so I think its just junk from the floor.

She's dragging her poor foot here. She doesn't seem in any pain about it though.

Pink

 

[jorats]

What a most darling girl. I had a boy with hind end degeneration, he dragged himself everywhere, developed huge upper body muscles. He continued that way happily for many months, he finally left me at 43 months old.

 

[Pink]

Oh, one other thing, I've never had a rat with this much trouble with their hind end. My 42 month old has no troubles keeping up with the 4 month old. Can she go into a FN or should I set up the sp exotics cage for her? I would prefer not to split my group, but I don't know if she can handle the ladders and heights of the FN 142. My rats are pretty easy to introduce too, all the boys are neutered and most of the girls are spayed. I don't think anyone will give her any issues, but I will be careful. The youngest boys are 4 and 6 months old but seem more interested in wrestling with each other instead of others. I don't think they would give her too hard of a time. I just don't know if I should give her to opportunity to use the ladders.

Pink

 

[lj]

42 months? WOW! That's amazing.

I as well want to give Glucosamine, but can only find the pills. Where would I get the liquid?

 

[jorats]

That's a tough call. I had to move my Remi to a single level home because I found him dangling off a FN ladder, he's got HED pretty advanced too. You could try it out, keep a close eye on her and remove her at the first sign of trouble.
Now that could totally disrupt the colony... so it might be a good idea to put her by herself to begin with. It's really one of those gut instinct situation.

 

[jorats]

I as well want to give Glucosamine, but can only find the pills. Where would I get the liquid?

A long time ago, I saw some of it in liquid form for dogs in Pet Food Warehouse and also Pet Valu. Have you checked places like independent pet shops? Or what about a health food store/supplement store?

 

[Pink]

I found the liquid in the supplement section of the grocery store (Fred Meyers). I've also seem it at Sam's club. Its definitely easier to give to animals than the pill stuff, my cats never notice it in their food. Its in a pretty big bottle so it should be fairly easy to spot.

Pink

 

[Dewi]

Ooh poor girl. I hope she feels more comfy soon.

Is dosage with glucosamine an important thing? Can you have too much? My vet gave me glucosamine powder for the rats and said to sprinkle some on the food, but wasn't overly concerned about the dose.

If her hind legs are weak, your rescue girl won't likely climb the ladders. So try her out with your current set up. I know my guys stopped using ladders when they weren't up to it any longer. Of course I made sure they had everything they needed on the level they liked to stay on.

That 42 month old rat of yours sounds remarkable !

 

[lj]

I will check the pet stores. I had only checked the drug store and the Superstore but didn't see it. If my vet has it, that would be awesome!

 

[jorats]

I never thought about the vet... I bet they could get it too.

 

[Pink]

I really don't know if the dosage with glucosamine is an important thing. I'm sure there is a certain level that it becomes too much, you can have too much of anything, and I just don't know where that is. I believe its pretty easy on the body though, so I doubt I could really hurt her with reasonable amounts. I gave her maybe a 1/2 tsp in her baby cereal earlier, but I think half of that ended up in the bedding.

I did talk to my vet a couple years ago about glucosamine for my kitty. She recommended I use the human stuff as it is cheaper than what is sold by vets, and probably higher quality. They do have capsules for cats that you could easily sprinkle on food.

I am pretty sure she will try to climb the ladders. She's been in a bare cage for awhile now, and has a habit of climbing nearly 3 feet to the top of the cage! She has a LOT of troubles getting down, it ends up being a barely controlled fall. I'm really worried she won't be able to control it one time and will end up hurt. Her buddy died with a broken leg in the same cage. I'm assuming the shock of the break was just too much for her, she apparently had several tumors too. I'm going to leave her in her cage tonight, and then intro her to the FN tomorrow. So far everyone has been getting along really well with her. I'm going to see if there is a way to split the height of her cage in half, its a super pet, so that often is easy to do.

The 42 month old is wonderful! She was a rescue too, got her around 30 months old, never thought she would make it this far! She is doing really well, she's slowed down a bit, but its hard to tell. My rats have free range of two rooms whenever I'm home, and she's always running over to the kitchen and begging for scraps. Only a couple of the rats ever bother leaving the rat room.... She's probably the most active of my nine rats, and certainly the sweetest. Unfortunately she's gotten a bit sneezy in her old age, and has a tumor growing between her front legs. But, she was spayed at 31 months and this tumor has been growing extremely slowly, so hopefully she has a long time still. I'm going to start nebulizing her with the other rats, antibiotics in the past haven't done much for her sneezing.

Pics:

She's the pretty siamese in front. My secret santa in a recent swap sent me all the awesome hammocks.

Here she is destroying the eye of the ocotopus. She had serious hatred for that eye! This came from another secret santa in another swap.

Why I can no longer made cuddle cups for my crew. I'm happy to make them for others though!

Sweetness with my boyfriend a year ago.

Pink

edited four times to make those pics work!

 

[Pink]

I have more pictures of little V with Sweetness. They spent the night together in V's old cage. I'm going to try adding V to the FN today, and watching how that goes. V seems to already be improving with better food. I have high hopes for her!

Pink

 

[mamarat]

Wow your cage is beautiful. Aww those oldies, I just love them. :heart: Any way you can put something soft where she would land on if she was to fall? I put a string of blocks for Victor along the ramp (like a handrail) and it kept him from falling down to the floor.

 

[Dewi]

I love old rats too, and Pink, your rats are gorgeous . When my current rattie numbers go down, I am going to stick with rescuing oldies and other harder to home rats. You have so many PEWs. I'm currently PEW and agouti-less and I do miss them.

ETA: Oh that was silly of me, I have one agouti, my wildling Rattus rattus :roll: . I guess I mean that I'm don't have any agouti Norway rats.

 

[jorats]

That cage looks great.
It's amazing what a little TLC can do to older rats. :heart: